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Amazon driver quits over AI-powered safety cameras in delivery vehicles

businessinsider.com

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Re: Amazon driver quits over AI-powered safety cameras in delivery vehicles

#41

Post by ashaikh »

I don’t think the systems are new or unique. We test drive a Kia last weekend and it was a feature they called “Driver Attention Warning.”

I’ve seen this in other brands and cars as well.

It looks like these systems use a variety of factors, steering patterns, frequency of vehicle lane assist being activated, cameras evaluating driver, biometrics (heart rate, body temperature etc.), and face monitoring/eye tracking (to see if the driver is focused on the road).

We own a Volvo and have received surveys asking about our comfort level with these features, so I’m assuming this will be commonplace soon.

Re: Amazon driver quits over AI-powered safety cameras in delivery vehicles

#42

Post by tomhoward »

mathieubordere wrote: post #25
tomhoward wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Driver fatigue is an issue for freight companies of all sizes, everywhere, and use of amphetamines to stay awake has been a frequent practice among many drivers for a long time. This is a freight industry issue, not an Amazon issue.

They sure have the size and the means to make an impact though.

Most places have statutory or industry-standard requirements on shift length limits and minimum rest periods for driving or anything else that carries fatigue-related safety risks. Is there any evidence that Amazon puts pressure on drivers to break these limits? I haven't heard of this being the case.

But neither Amazon nor any other freight/delivery company can control its drivers' entire lives. No matter how much it pays, it can't stop some workers working multiple jobs - due to having severe debts or other personal motivations to work more than they should.

Re: Amazon driver quits over AI-powered safety cameras in delivery vehicles

#43

Post by Kye »

ashaikh wrote: post #41

I don’t think the systems are new or unique. We test drive a Kia last weekend and it was a feature they called “Driver Attention Warning.” I’ve seen this in other brands and cars as well. It looks like these systems use a variety of factors, steering patterns, frequency of vehicle lane assist being activated, cameras evaluating driver, biometrics (heart rate, body temperature etc.), and face monitoring/eye tracking (…

A monitoring system that helps you drive safer is different from a monitoring system that lets your employer judge your driving in real time.

Re: Amazon driver quits over AI-powered safety cameras in delivery vehicles

#44

Post by xadhominemx »

andyjohnson0 wrote: post #4

I do wonder what kind of company culture produces decisions like this. Multiple high-level people will have signed-off on this. They'll have sat in meetings reading their six page documents and nodding at eachother. I wonder if, at any point, anyone said no - this is excessive? Or that this is dehumanising? Or is it that when you get past a certain level at Amazon are you already so invested in their worldview that t…

What do you mean by “decisions like like this”? Driver monitoring had been around for a very long time and it saves lives. And I don’t know about you but my office has windows and all my colleagues can watch me work all day long.

Re: Amazon driver quits over AI-powered safety cameras in delivery vehicles

#45

Post by hibbelig »

agsamek wrote: post #26

What is the difference between this and having cctv in a factory building? Companies impose more work control over more people. If a company makes good use of it then it becomes a regular practice. If not then employees select another employer. We are lucky that we work in a creative field, most occupancies require just good, repetitive work. There should be a legal framework to destroy archive recordings, liability…

They made sure that the employees cannot select a different employer because they are in a small town in the middle of nowhere with no other employers.

Re: Amazon driver quits over AI-powered safety cameras in delivery vehicles

#46

Post by loloquwowndueo »

EarlKing wrote: post #40
loloquwowndueo wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without visual confirmation, the driver could either buckle the seatbelt under themselves (buckle over the empty seat and then sit on it) or have a buckle (yes, just a buckle) to trick the sensor into thinking all is well. I’ve seen taxi drivers do this to avoid having to actually buckle up; I guess it’s uncomfortable to them? I wonder if wearing a shirt with an image of a seatbelt would be enough to trick the camera…

Buckling the seatbelt and sitting on it (implying that they're going to just buckle once and never bother with it) is easily detected via vehicle telemetry. They track every time you buckle and unbuckle the belt. Anyone who isn't buckling and unbuckling at the expected rate is flagged. Occasionally this results in the discovery of a faulty sensor which gets replaced, but nine times out of ten it results in the discov…

The car itself tells you when it expects you to buckle up by beeping annoyingly, so it sounds like beating this method just requires the little bit of discipline to unbuckle your “phantom buckle” every time you get out of the car.

Re: Amazon driver quits over AI-powered safety cameras in delivery vehicles

#47

Post by goatinaboat »

taurath wrote: post #12
andyjohnson0 wrote: post #4

I do wonder what kind of company culture produces decisions like this. Multiple high-level people will have signed-off on this. They'll have sat in meetings reading their six page documents and nodding at eachother. I wonder if, at any point, anyone said no - this is excessive? Or that this is dehumanising? Or is it that when you get past a certain level at Amazon are you already so invested in their worldview that t…

The reason for this is they think of people like they think about a server farm - and not just employees but customers too.

The reason for this is they think of people like they think about a server farm - and not just employees but customers too

This is literally true, managers refer to workers as "resources". A resource is something that you use up and then discard. At least they are in their own way being honest about it.

Re: Amazon driver quits over AI-powered safety cameras in delivery vehicles

#48

Post by brtkdotse »

loloquwowndueo wrote: post #46
EarlKing wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buckling the seatbelt and sitting on it (implying that they're going to just buckle once and never bother with it) is easily detected via vehicle telemetry. They track every time you buckle and unbuckle the belt. Anyone who isn't buckling and unbuckling at the expected rate is flagged. Occasionally this results in the discovery of a faulty sensor which gets replaced, but nine times out of ten it results in the discov…

The car itself tells you when it expects you to buckle up by beeping annoyingly, so it sounds like beating this method just requires the little bit of discipline to unbuckle your “phantom buckle” every time you get out of the car.

At that point it’s just childish defiance. Just wear the damn belt, it saves lives!

Re: Amazon driver quits over AI-powered safety cameras in delivery vehicles

#49

Post by bobmaxup »

tomhoward wrote: post #16
mathieubordere wrote: post #6

Do the drivers have to work extremely long shifts or do they have to work multiple jobs so that fatigue becomes an issue? In that case the camera system is probably not the right solution ...

Driver fatigue is an issue for freight companies of all sizes, everywhere, and use of amphetamines to stay awake has been a frequent practice among many drivers for a long time. This is a freight industry issue, not an Amazon issue.

Are you citing this?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-drug-truckdrivers/drug-us...

Which uses this as a source: https://oem.bmj.com/content/71/1/71.short?g=w_oem_ahead_tab

https://sci-hub.do/10.1136/oemed-2013-101452

Re: Amazon driver quits over AI-powered safety cameras in delivery vehicles

#50

Post by [deleted] »

agsamek wrote: post #39
eloisant wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having cctv in a factory is one thing, having one camera pointed to the face of each employee with AI to detect what they're doing is something else.

And what about having cctv on every work station in a factory? This is regularly used in a high cost scenarios for quality assurance/tracking. And it will be used much more when technology is cheaper / easier to deploy. Is this kind of supervision ok?

[deleted]
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