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Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

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Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#521

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Yes. Geography

Really ? Working more has nothing to do with it ? Or brilliant universities ? Or immigration ?

None of that happens without the geography of the United States.

The US is the classic born on 3rd Base.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet, the level of inequity in france is nowhere near as much as USA. Sure there arn't as many mega rich, but then there arn't people hundreds of thousands of people being bankrupted by medical bills either.

I thought there are 'out of pocket maximums' set by the government to avoid that? The most that individuals will have to pay out-of-pocket in 2020 is $8,200 and $16,400 for families.

To put that in context, in the UK the average wage is £38k (we have a much wider distribution than on the continent)

The most we'd pay in tax is £8k: https://listentotaxman.com/38000?

that covers all our health insurance as well. There is no copay, there are no "your condition isn't covered anymore". The only issue now is wait times, but thats because we're balls deep in a pandemic.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#523
Unpopular opinion and it's not applicable to the US.

Because it's unpopular, it also won't get discussed anywhere... ( My perception could obviously be wrong, bit it would get silenced immediately for bringing it up)

We have a powerfull union here in Belgium ( connections with politics) and since a lot had already accomplished, they keep fighting for ridiculous things for the mere purpose of keeping themselves relevant.

One of their most favorite is classifying teachers as very hard labor. Coming from a background where my dad worked 18/24 and 7/7 that stings. I know multiple teachers and I don't consider that hard labor. It's important labor, yes. But they don't have a lot of stress of other professions, not much working hours and a lot of vacation.

Keeping your course up to date every year is not stressful ( if that even happens. A lot of professors copy-paste their work)

Important note: depending on the students age they teach ( toddlers, middle aged, adults. I do believe it gets harder and they need to add more hours. But classifying everyone as one is a mistake in my POV.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#524
post #199

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I had this naive image in mind that unions are labor activists mobilizing against exploitative corporate practices. What I witnessed opened my eyes to the realities on ground, that seemed like almost opposite. As usual, life is more complicated! * The objective of trade unions is not to protect workers and improve their conditions (at least directly). It’s to protect themselves. * In every organization, there exists…

Germany's workforce in automotive and many other industries is HIGHLY unionized. I've never heard of these people being lazy, not wanting to work etc. In fact German engineering is the envy of the world! VW, Mercedes, BMW, Porsche all German engineered and manufactured by heavily unionized workforces! Sounds like your anecdotal bad experience with unions is not representative of reality. And FWIW I can list you just…

It's likely not as bad as in France, but in a shifting economy, German unions are still hurting the manufacturers. Just last year they got the CEO of Volkswagen fired for wanting to invest massively in electric cars. Workers specialized in ICE drivetrains can't have that. Much easier to block the innovation at board level than to retrain. That will go on until somehow union dominance is overcome or the companies are dead in the water against new competitors.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree. Close to zero progress in electrifying European produced cars. I would say unions are the cause for the delay resisting any change away from skills their members have, but obsoleted by electric cars with 1/10 the number of parts required.

VW group has twice the EVs in pipeline than Tesla. Sales are probably gonna overtake Tesla this or next year. They are not as fun as Teslas but they are solid products that people seem to prefer over fart mode that cost them extra $10k.

We'll see about that pipeline, as the underlying massive investment needed got blocked last year by union leaders.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#526
post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know what they also all of in common? Zero innovation since decades. And German car engineering is mostly known for being overly complicated, I say that as a German.

>And German car engineering is mostly known for being overly complicated, I say that as a German Being German doesn't give your statement credibility - you don't have to be German to drive or understand a German car. If you said "as a German automotive engineer" then it might carry some weight, but only if also provided specifics.

The point is I'm not an American/Japanese who is biased against German cars for whatever reason..

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forget, with a union, the world's richest man might get richer every day at a slightly slower rate than he currently gets richer. That's the real horror!

Why does it have to be zero sum?

Your power in society is zero sum. Giving it all away to an oligarch in exchange for promises of cheap consumer goods is not an credible bargain.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first amendment doesn't protect a private company making statements on a private platform If Elon stood on the street corner shouting lies into a megaphone? Sure, maybe there'd be an argument there

Thats complete nonsense. This isn't the private company making a decision on its platform, this is a government agency forcefully having a tweet removed.

Furthermore, the idea that the federal government can coerce private companies into taking actions which the government is explicitly Constitutionally denied (censorship) is scary in the extreme.

People need to think these things through ahead of them getting too far into Godwin's Law territory.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The worst thing that people can say about unions is they are bureaucratic and inconvenient. I disagree. Unions can lead to the death of entire industries - I have seen it with my own eyes. Inefficiencies created by unions lead to jobs going to places where such unions do not exist. Personally, I do believe the workers need to be protected, but if you protect workers then you also need to protect industries, and thi…

“death of entire industries” What industry? Maybe we need to open a gigantic can of worms that “runs counter to globalization” if we’re talking about sending those jobs to countries with unethical working conditions.

Taxis in a lot of places are akin to a union and are slowly dying with semi-legal alternatives like uber
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