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At Home with Down Syndrome (2008)

thenewatlantis.com

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Re: At Home with Down Syndrome (2008)

#141

Post by [deleted] »

DanBC wrote: post #137
dang wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You're just biased" is the first retort of every troll. Actually my bias is closer to your view than to the opposite. That's not the issue here. The issue is that you're coming in with guns blazing, lashing out and firing condemnations at the side you have a problem with. Not only is this not helpful, it does violence to the thread. You're coming in to a room (let's call it) of human beings who have dealt with, and…

> The issue is that you're coming in with guns blazing, [...] it does violence to the thread. It's frankly a bit weird that you think the claim that [we should eliminate people who we see as inferior] doesn't do this.

[deleted]

Re: At Home with Down Syndrome (2008)

#142

Post by dang »

DanBC wrote: post #136
dang wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are deep issues to discuss here. Flamebait and name-calling destroy that possibility, so please don't post like this. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Dang, this is yet another example of you making a comment to someone who is responding angrily to a person saying abhorrent things. Your continued defence of polite but disgusting comments pushes out people with different backgrounds, and entrenches fascists who can maintain a polite veneer over their scientific racism or misogyny. It is unreasonable of you to say that people must remain calm no matter what the provo…

Even on the spectrum of internet misunderstandings, this is such an outlier that I'm at a loss for what to tell you.

Re: At Home with Down Syndrome (2008)

#143

Post by BobbyJo »

83457 wrote: post #113
BobbyJo wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wrong ? No. But definitely pointless and insensitive. Common genetic factors causing similar phenotypes isn't a novel, or even interesting, thought.

Is it pointless and insensitive for a scientific manual to indicate that all individuals with a certain genetic disorder look incredibly similar across races and genders? My point is that there is a difference between stereotyping races/cultures/disabled and indicating highly correlated attributes in individuals with specific genetic/chromisonal abnormalities.

Is it bad for a textbook to point out how hypoxia kills brain cells during drowning? No. Is it tasteful to bring up at a funeral for someone who drowned? Also no.

If it's in a useful and tasteful context, discuss away. Otherwise, just don't be a chode.

Re: At Home with Down Syndrome (2008)

#144

Post by Hallucinaut »

kingsloi wrote: post #23

edit: I hadn't really woken up when I first read the article, so I read it again after my morning coffee. I can't express how nice it was to read it, it sums up my experience perfectly. I'm teary eye'd writing this, I had just finished reading it, and then look behind me and see mom and baby on the sofa passed out next to each other, we've literally only been home about 15 hours, and I'm so happy seeing them together…

Congrats on your daughter, she's beautiful and I hope with the pace of medicine she can always stay ahead of the curve.

There were many jarring moments in that blog but the number in the last one is probably the most shocking. I deeply hope you find a resolution to that. Vampiric is absolutely the word.

Re: At Home with Down Syndrome (2008)

#145

Post by gadders »

watwut wrote: post #118
gadders wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always thought there was a certain tension between being against aborting babies with Downs Syndrome but being OK for healthy babies being aborted for lifestyle reasons. [Not OP specifically, just something I have observed]

That is because what you call "lifestyle reasons" as if we talked about slight unimportant change in lifestyle are actually massively life changing limitations. With lifelong consequences you won't ever be able to avoid and oftentimes literally end of your life as you knew it.

Well here's an example for you: https://slate.com/human-interest/2021/03/dear-prudence-abort...

Re: At Home with Down Syndrome (2008)

#146

Post by yhoneycomb »

hobbyjogger wrote: post #85
yhoneycomb wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious could you give examples of them being witty?

My uncle sometimes puts his shoes on the wrong feet and once managed to put his jeans on backwards (buttoned but not zipped behind him). As he walked past the doorway my mom (his sister) said, "Your pants are on backwards!" Without missing a beat, he countered, "Maybe I was going the other way..." and sort of moonwalked back the way he came.

this is too funny haha, thanks

Re: At Home with Down Syndrome (2008)

#147

Post by robertlagrant »

BrandoElFollito wrote: post #130
nemo44x wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure on the first question but I imagine that yes, the same types of tests are conducted. As for any to-be parents - yes and I’d recommend it. You may find you both carry a relatively rare recessive gene that would give your offspring a 25% of having a certain disorder. This can guide your decision on if you want to go forward with natural fertilization and risk it (and make the choice after testing the cells…

> For the last one I err towards it being a personal liberty to decide what life you do and do not bring into the world. But it does get more hairy when you start discussing public support in terms of resources to support the child/family. Then it is everyone’s business imo. But I’d imagine people that can afford IVF don’t rely on government programs to finance their life. It certainly is a personal liberty. I am Fre…

> have a sick child that will cost more to the society

This is easy - you just need a way to measure in advance someone's total utility to society, including any inventions they might make, number of people they make laugh or encourage, how many lives or livelihoods they may save, and then decide whether or not they're worth it.

Get back to me when you have that, would you?

Re: At Home with Down Syndrome (2008)

#148

Post by BrandoElFollito »

robertlagrant wrote: post #147
BrandoElFollito wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For the last one I err towards it being a personal liberty to decide what life you do and do not bring into the world. But it does get more hairy when you start discussing public support in terms of resources to support the child/family. Then it is everyone’s business imo. But I’d imagine people that can afford IVF don’t rely on government programs to finance their life. It certainly is a personal liberty. I am Fre…

> have a sick child that will cost more to the society This is easy - you just need a way to measure in advance someone's total utility to society, including any inventions they might make, number of people they make laugh or encourage, how many lives or livelihoods they may save, and then decide whether or not they're worth it. Get back to me when you have that, would you?

Oh come on - you pay taxes, don't you? Either we get rid of money and we live in some kind of wonderland, or we pay for the society and expect it to be serious.

I am very much for a socialist society, like the one we have in France. I am ready to pay, and do it with pleasure, so that people born disabled, or living in poverty have a chance like my children do.

When someone makes the clear decision to have a child that will be disabled then that person must assume that the world will not be running to help them when they realize they have huge expenses. They wanted these expenses so please do not come crying afterwards, though campaigns.

This is very much different from accidents - we need to be solidar here.

This is very similar to people who smoke or eat to become overweight and then cry when comes the operation that costs a fortune.

Sorry - but I want my money to be spent on things that help the ones who need help and did not expect or predict to be in a bad situation. Not the ones who decided to have a disabled child becaise of some shower vision of theirs.

Re: At Home with Down Syndrome (2008)

#149

Post by robertlagrant »

BrandoElFollito wrote: post #148
robertlagrant wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> have a sick child that will cost more to the society This is easy - you just need a way to measure in advance someone's total utility to society, including any inventions they might make, number of people they make laugh or encourage, how many lives or livelihoods they may save, and then decide whether or not they're worth it. Get back to me when you have that, would you?

Oh come on - you pay taxes, don't you? Either we get rid of money and we live in some kind of wonderland, or we pay for the society and expect it to be serious. I am very much for a socialist society, like the one we have in France. I am ready to pay, and do it with pleasure, so that people born disabled, or living in poverty have a chance like my children do. When someone makes the clear decision to have a child tha…

In the scenario mentioned, no one decided to have a disabled child.

Re: At Home with Down Syndrome (2008)

#150

Post by BrandoElFollito »

robertlagrant wrote: post #149
BrandoElFollito wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh come on - you pay taxes, don't you? Either we get rid of money and we live in some kind of wonderland, or we pay for the society and expect it to be serious. I am very much for a socialist society, like the one we have in France. I am ready to pay, and do it with pleasure, so that people born disabled, or living in poverty have a chance like my children do. When someone makes the clear decision to have a child tha…

In the scenario mentioned, no one decided to have a disabled child.

See a few steps up in the thread:

> For the last one I err towards it being a personal liberty to decide what life you do and do not bring into the world. But it does get more hairy when you start discussing public support in terms of resources to support the child/family. Then it is everyone’s business imo. But I’d imagine people that can afford IVF don’t rely on government programs to finance their life.

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