This is flatly illegal and in violation of their charter. The US state is becoming more desperate as they violate their own rules to hunt our own citizens using military intelligence.
Senators Offer to Let NSA Hunt Cyber Actors Inside the US
11–20 of 44 posts
Re: Senators Offer to Let NSA Hunt Cyber Actors Inside the US
#12I put away my robe and wizard hat.
Re: Senators Offer to Let NSA Hunt Cyber Actors Inside the US
#13Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why is cyber warfare any different from other military efforts? I've never heard of this split of defense and offense in other military realms.
Everyone uses the same communications technology. Your email and Turkish email are the same, an attack on one is an attack on the other, and a defense of one is a defense of the other. This isn't World War II where German communications are encrypted on Engima machines while American communications are encrypted by translation into Navajo. Your tanks are quite different from Turkish tanks: Turkish tanks are located i…
The NSA can attack foreign assets without compromising a single american asset. Mind you, I'm playing devil's advocate here to understand the reasoning. The NSA is abhorrent to me.
Re: Senators Offer to Let NSA Hunt Cyber Actors Inside the US
#14So the argument is that attacks can happen too fast to go through the tedious process of FISA courts, but one of their examples is the Solarwinds hack that was ongoing for over a year.
And I don't understand how greater access would have helped with the Exchange exploits, except if the NSA was aware of what zero-days were being used they could contribute their knowledge gained from their exploitation of them.
Re: Senators Offer to Let NSA Hunt Cyber Actors Inside the US
#15Earlier quoted context omitted.
Everyone uses the same communications technology. Your email and Turkish email are the same, an attack on one is an attack on the other, and a defense of one is a defense of the other. This isn't World War II where German communications are encrypted on Engima machines while American communications are encrypted by translation into Navajo. Your tanks are quite different from Turkish tanks: Turkish tanks are located i…
The NSA can attack foreign assets without compromising a single american asset. Mind you, I'm playing devil's advocate here to understand the reasoning. The NSA is abhorrent to me.
No, that's not how software works. An attack that works against foreign assets works just as well against American assets, because they run the same software.
So once you have the attack, you know that
(1) The evil Turks have a hole in their defenses, and you can use it to spy on them;
(2) The righteous Americans have a hole -- exactly the same hole -- in their defenses, and you can use it to spy on them;
(3) Everyone else in the world can also spy on the righteous Americans, just like you can.
Now you have to choose whether your job is protecting the Americans or undermining the Turks. You can do exactly one of those things. If you protect the Americans, the Turks will receive the same protection. If you keep silent to let the Turks embarrass themselves, you're also letting the Americans embarrass themselves.
Re: Senators Offer to Let NSA Hunt Cyber Actors Inside the US
#16This is flatly illegal and in violation of their charter. The US state is becoming more desperate as they violate their own rules to hunt our own citizens using military intelligence.
Power leads to the creation of more power. History is the guide to verify this. However, things changed with the internet/tech... They have changed in ways we have a difficulty grasping as society. It might be the sides with power using their tools, to make a path to remain/grow power.
Re: Senators Offer to Let NSA Hunt Cyber Actors Inside the US
#17"The problem here isn’t our privacy laws, but that the government is failing cybersecurity 101." -- Ron Wyden
Re: Senators Offer to Let NSA Hunt Cyber Actors Inside the US
#18Earlier quoted context omitted.
The NSA can attack foreign assets without compromising a single american asset. Mind you, I'm playing devil's advocate here to understand the reasoning. The NSA is abhorrent to me.
No, that's not how software works. An attack that works against foreign assets works just as well against American assets, because they run the same software. So once you have the attack, you know that (1) The evil Turks have a hole in their defenses, and you can use it to spy on them; (2) The righteous Americans have a hole -- exactly the same hole -- in their defenses, and you can use it to spy on them ; (3) Everyo…
Are you talking about the introduction of backdoors or just exploiting vulnerabilities that are there? Because the latter sounds analogous to the creation of a tank bomb which might theoretically used against your tanks also.
The parent poster said the NSA "can" do attacks that don't reduce the security US assets. They didn't claim that all possible attacks fit this description. For example they can try to guess at bad passwords used on that foreign computer system.
Re: Senators Offer to Let NSA Hunt Cyber Actors Inside the US
#19Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, that's not how software works. An attack that works against foreign assets works just as well against American assets, because they run the same software. So once you have the attack, you know that (1) The evil Turks have a hole in their defenses, and you can use it to spy on them; (2) The righteous Americans have a hole -- exactly the same hole -- in their defenses, and you can use it to spy on them ; (3) Everyo…
Are you talking about the introduction of backdoors or just exploiting vulnerabilities that are there? Because the latter sounds analogous to the creation of a tank bomb which might theoretically used against your tanks also. The parent poster said the NSA "can" do attacks that don't reduce the security US assets. They didn't claim that all possible attacks fit this description. For example they can try to guess at b…
Root comment:
>>> how about the NSA used its powers to defend Americans instead of hoarding zero days and spying on them?
>> why does this have to be XOR?
Because these are opposed goals. Defending Americans means invalidating zero-days. You could restrict yourself solely to attacks that don't rely on flaws in the software. In that case, you would have no reason to hoard zero-days, because you are ideologically committed to never use them.
That would be weird in a few different ways. But most relevant here, it answers "Why can't we do both?" with "We can, as long as we never do the second one!"
This is not really a compelling response.
Re: Senators Offer to Let NSA Hunt Cyber Actors Inside the US
#20This is flatly illegal and in violation of their charter. The US state is becoming more desperate as they violate their own rules to hunt our own citizens using military intelligence.
The domestic war on terrorism is their next big front after the war on drugs. Now that that fake war is coming to an end they need a new invented war to leverage as an excuse to expand their power.
And if there aren't enough domestic terrorists, they'll take care of that, just as they did with the war on drugs (not enough criminals? make some).
They'll turn the US military industrial complex inward as they do it, mauling human rights further. Which is exactly what is being done in DC with the national guard and the entirely fraudulent reasoning for it. It's why Pelosi & Co. have repeatedly said that a 9/11 like response is needed to the riots at the Capitol, they're telling you exactly what they intend, it's comically out in the open. Their intention is to militarize permanently, their ideal is that the national guard never leaves and or is replaced by a new standing quasi-military force (if the US military can't operate freely domestically, they'll create something new that can that is a de facto military). It's just another notch in the authoritarian creep that has ramped up since 9/11.
If you made a wishlist that they're going to pursue, mangling encryption is right at or near the top.