How can you tell if someone is lying? • Hacker News Board

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#91

Post by Robin_Message » Sun, Mar 28, 2021, 6:43 AM UTC

GavinMcG wrote: post #44

DoofusOfDeath wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give more info on that podcast? I'm finding a bunch with that name.

It's a book, by Malcolm Gladwell. The comment said the audiobook is like a good podcast.

If it's a book by Malcolm Gladwell, I can't anti-recommend it enough.

All of the Malcolm Gladwell books I've read have been tripe. Unless he has radically improved his writing and grasp of nuance in the last decade (and published retractions of his earlier books), his books are dangerous anti-knowledge which will make you feel smarter but actually be dumber.

Gladwell takes an obvious, folksy thing, adds a bit of a twist to it, presents several anecdotes as dramatic stories illustrating his point, then slaps on some "science" to make it seem like its true. It's not. He's just making stuff up that sounds plausible but surprising.

Gladwell writes well, and seems believable. That doesn't make him right.

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#92

Post by aidenn0 » Sun, Mar 28, 2021, 6:45 AM UTC

Godel_unicode wrote: post #57

dwighttk wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lake Woebegon effect is such a terrible name. It is very easily possible that every student in a small town is above average compared to e.g. the national average.

I have to question whether you're trying to prove GPs point, as this is hilariously incorrect. Unless you're using very unlikely values for easy and/or small.

Now I'm thinking of a horror fan fiction version of lake wobegon where they give all kids an IQ test at a young age and murder all those below the national average.

Just my crazy version of what "easy" could entail.

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#93

Post by throwaway744678 » Sun, Mar 28, 2021, 6:45 AM UTC

Clewza313 wrote: post #78

Godel_unicode wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if I told you that playing a low-stakes game and real life are not the same thing?

Most real life lies are also pretty low stakes. "Oh, I'd love to come to Aunt Mabel's party but I can't." "We should totally do lunch sometime."

"Does this dress make me look fat?" It looks low stake, but it is definitely not. Be careful out there.

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#94

Post by hntrader » Sun, Mar 28, 2021, 6:46 AM UTC

We evolved to be effective deceivers, so if there was a systemic and obvious physical tell (looking left = liar) then evolution would try to eliminate it.

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#95

Post by Lio » Sun, Mar 28, 2021, 6:47 AM UTC

I wonder if there was a reliable method to spot lying if efforts would be made to keep it secret in the same way that broken ciphers are.

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#96

Post by hntrader » Sun, Mar 28, 2021, 6:51 AM UTC

Godel_unicode wrote: post #57

dwighttk wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lake Woebegon effect is such a terrible name. It is very easily possible that every student in a small town is above average compared to e.g. the national average.

I have to question whether you're trying to prove GPs point, as this is hilariously incorrect. Unless you're using very unlikely values for easy and/or small.

They're not incorrect.

Firstly, you're assuming independent probabilities between the students.

If it's a single class of 30, for certain skills it might be much more likely than pow(0.5, 30) if they were all specifically coached on that particular skill, or if there are selection effects impacting what type of person ends up in that group of 30.

Secondly, even if we grant the assumption of independence, the claim doesn't rely on "unlikely values for ... small". There's many small towns with a student body of only 5 or less people, and pow(0.5, 5) isn't that unlikely.

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#97

Post by nullsense » Sun, Mar 28, 2021, 6:52 AM UTC

throwaway744678 wrote: post #93

Clewza313 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most real life lies are also pretty low stakes. "Oh, I'd love to come to Aunt Mabel's party but I can't." "We should totally do lunch sometime."

"Does this dress make me look fat?" It looks low stake, but it is definitely not. Be careful out there.

No. The burgers and fries make you look fat.

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#98

Post by raducu » Sun, Mar 28, 2021, 6:55 AM UTC

foobiekr wrote: post #65

David Simon's book, Homicide, has an apropos section: """Terry McLarney once mused that the best way to unsettle a suspect would be to post in all three interrogation rooms a written list of those behavior patterns that indicate deception: Uncooperative. Too cooperative. Talks too much. Talks too little. Gets his story perfectly straight. Fucks his story up. Blinks too much, avoids eye contact. Doesn’t blink. Stares.…

I'd like to see some hot-shot detective try to get a random number from 1-1000 out of my head by using those techniques.

Yeah, he couldn't.

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#99

Post by greggman3 » Sun, Mar 28, 2021, 6:55 AM UTC

edmundsauto wrote: post #90

thaumasiotes wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Playing those games enough makes you realize how idiosyncratic lying can be. In my view this is just one more error springing from the root error of turning "a jury of your peers" into "a jury of random strangers". One point of being judged by a jury of your peers is that they are familiar with the types of things you're likely to do. But another is that your peers are familiar with the ways in which you're likely…

People are practiced at telling lies that their peers believe. Random strangers are better at being skeptical because they are not empathetic about the excuses that are necessary to smooth out an explanation.

Are random strangers better? The stereotype is they just based on looks and mannerisms. Dark skin + sweats = guilty. etc...

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#100

Post by path411 » Sun, Mar 28, 2021, 6:55 AM UTC

XorNot wrote: post #72

gizmo686 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is something of a meta-game there that doesn't exist in "real" cases like criminal investigations. Since everyone knows that they will be guilty some of the time, a reasonably strategy is to act guilty all of the time.

Except this comes in in real life all the time: "you don't need a lawyer here, you're not guilty..." - yes you do. You always need a lawyer. You always should plead the 5th if it applies. No, you should never be talking to law enforcement without a lawyer. No you should not let law enforcement "take a look around" without a warrant. Real life is full of things you absolutely should do which are sold up and down throu…

Yep, if anything, being innocent is the most important time for having a lawyer. I think not getting charged with a crime you didn't commit is more important than getting away with a crime that you did.