How can you tell if someone is lying? • Hacker News Board

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#41

Post by clouddrover » Sun, Mar 28, 2021, 4:22 AM UTC

gameswithgo wrote: post #35

clouddrover wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> current polygraph techniques can allegedly be beaten with training No training is needed because polygraphs don't work. Polygraph testing is about as worthwhile as astrology: https://www.apa.org/research/action/polygraph https://www.salon.com/2000/03/02/polygraph/ And inadmissible in court in many places: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/MurUEJL/2000/6.html > if trained polygraph techs with special equipment T…

That your post has been downvoted is disheartening. Your reply was factually correct, cited, and reasonably polite. Perhaps instead of saying "at best" they are con artists, it would have been more polite to say at worst, they are con artists. Probably many earnestly believe in what they are doing, and are just wrong.

It really doesn't matter how earnest they are when polygraphs have been known to be garbage pseudoscience for decades, and especially when people's lives can be derailed by the fraudulent "results" obtained from a polygraph or even just the fiction that it can get results:

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015-doug-williams-war-on...

Calling them con artists is about as polite as I can be.

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#42

Post by sdf435t3 » Sun, Mar 28, 2021, 4:36 AM UTC

StavrosK wrote: post #14

aidenn0 wrote: post #7

Any time I talk to someone about this evidence it's always "yeah, most people suck at telling liars, but I'm good at it." Lake Wobegon effect for people reading.

Any time I read about spotting liars I thought "man, I don't know how other people do it, but I suck at detecting lies". I mostly think this because every time someone on TV insists they're innocent, I believe them, and then they turn out to be guilty.

Why do you choose to "believe" or not to "believe" an actor based off of what you know to be a performance?

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#43

Post by Natsu » Sun, Mar 28, 2021, 4:36 AM UTC

jmcgough wrote: post #26

I played a ton of Among Us in 2020, which is a game where you have to figure out which of your friends are lying. I quickly learned that going off "well they're acting pretty guilty" was an easy way to lose. A friend of mine would immediately jump to accuse me whenever I cast suspicion on them, even if they were innocent. Way better to rely on actual evidence and not hunches, even more so when it comes to giving some…

I did the same, though there are weird people who lie for no reason and screw over the team, too, and sometimes you catch those idiots in a provable lie.

The best way to catch liars is to know things they don't know and trap them with that. In Among Us, it could be as simple as two people saw each other do a visual task (one that proves they're not an impostor) then have someone accuse the wrong person, or worse, be the only person that wasn't cleared that's left.

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#44

Post by GavinMcG » Sun, Mar 28, 2021, 4:37 AM UTC

DoofusOfDeath wrote: post #32

jvanderbot wrote: post #3

I can't recommend Talking to Strangers enough. We have a crippling inability of people to read strangers correctly. In addition to amazing testimony and evidence, great case studies, the production quality of the audiobook is like a good podcast.

Can you give more info on that podcast? I'm finding a bunch with that name.

It's a book, by Malcolm Gladwell. The comment said the audiobook is like a good podcast.

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#45

Post by clouddrover » Sun, Mar 28, 2021, 4:41 AM UTC

seppin wrote: post #38

gameswithgo wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That your post has been downvoted is disheartening. Your reply was factually correct, cited, and reasonably polite. Perhaps instead of saying "at best" they are con artists, it would have been more polite to say at worst, they are con artists. Probably many earnestly believe in what they are doing, and are just wrong.

One thing to add: > And inadmissible in court in many places: I'm not aware of any place that accepts polygraphs in a court.

Then I'll quote the article:

"In the United States of America, (where polygraph testing is a growth industry) the admissibility of lie detector test results is determined by courts and legislators on a State by State basis.

In the Federal legal system, test results are inadmissible as substantive evidence. Whilst some States have allowed test results in criminal trials, States such as such as California have prohibited the admission of such evidence unless all parties consent to its admission."

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#46

Post by aidenn0 » Sun, Mar 28, 2021, 4:41 AM UTC

dwighttk wrote: post #23

aidenn0 wrote: post #7

Any time I talk to someone about this evidence it's always "yeah, most people suck at telling liars, but I'm good at it." Lake Wobegon effect for people reading.

Lake Woebegon effect is such a terrible name. It is very easily possible that every student in a small town is above average compared to e.g. the national average.

And the eponymous commons didn't suffer from a tragedy of the commons. It's still the name.

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#47

Post by wespiser_2018 » Sun, Mar 28, 2021, 4:42 AM UTC

I think there are three decent ways to tell if someone is lying: the statement itself (did it contain self-contradictions), the context around the statement (was their hand in the cookie jar), and credibility (does the person have a history of lying).

You can use each of these questions to sway your belief in the truth of a statement, but nothing, short of corroborating facts at hand will give you an absolute assessment. Most of the time you just don't know, and it's a good reminder just how important trust is to a functioning society, and amazing how far some pathological liars can get. Importantly, behavioral queues are often misleading, and a person might be acting nervous for an independent reason, yet register all the behavioral clues of lying.

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#48

Post by anon_tor_12345 » Sun, Mar 28, 2021, 4:43 AM UTC

judge2020 wrote: post #40

gameswithgo wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That your post has been downvoted is disheartening. Your reply was factually correct, cited, and reasonably polite. Perhaps instead of saying "at best" they are con artists, it would have been more polite to say at worst, they are con artists. Probably many earnestly believe in what they are doing, and are just wrong.

> It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.

To be precise: a lot of people (even on hn, especially on hn) are personally and practically invested in authoritarian practices being legitimate.

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#49

Post by savanaly » Sun, Mar 28, 2021, 4:45 AM UTC

parsimo2010 wrote: post #17

Most of us can’t reliably tell when a romantic interest is actively signaling their mutual interest. If we can’t get cooperative activities right, most of us don’t have a chance to spot a liar through nonverbal cues. The fact is that random effects are huge when dealing with people. Is that person you’re interrogating not showing emotion because they’re a psychopath, or because they were taught not to display emotion…

It gets even hazier, frankly, when you realize that not every statement you make can be firmly categorized as a truth or lie. Due to cognitive dissonance our lies to others can soon become lies to ourselves, and where do you draw the line between wholly believing in a lie to yourself and being flat-out mistaken?

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#50

Post by wespiser_2018 » Sun, Mar 28, 2021, 4:52 AM UTC

parsimo2010 wrote: post #17

Most of us can’t reliably tell when a romantic interest is actively signaling their mutual interest. If we can’t get cooperative activities right, most of us don’t have a chance to spot a liar through nonverbal cues. The fact is that random effects are huge when dealing with people. Is that person you’re interrogating not showing emotion because they’re a psychopath, or because they were taught not to display emotion…

This is another good point: you can be interrogating (or interviewing) a suspect under investigation, use a withholding technique and successfully catch them in a lie, only to have them lying for a completely unrelated reason to the original inquiry. From what I've gathered, the best lies under interrogation are the ones with the most components of the truth and minimal superfluous information. The police will do everything to get you to talk and keep talking, which is why legal representation is so key.