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Facebook freezes Venezuela president Maduro's page over Covid-19

reuters.com

221–230 of 259 posts

Re: Facebook freezes Venezuela president Maduro's page over Covid-19

#221
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't announce the discovery of a miracle cure via social media, you announce it via clinical trial papers.

the medium you use does not establish the truth of your claim.

"Peer reviewed scientific journal" is, at least in theory, a process as much as a medium, and the process at least makes an attempt to screen the worst misinformation or least rigorous scientific methodology through the mechanism of peer review.

(That it often fails at this isn't a point in dispute. The fact that the medium entails a process and that the process, at least nominally, serves truth is.)

There's also the reputational role that such journals serve, effectively transferring the trust bestowed on the journal to the authors appearing within it, where trust is a belief extended beyond the extent of verifiable fact though not in opposition to them (as in the case of blind faith).

To that extent, and in a world in which each individual receiving a piece of information cannot independently assess and verify that information, your premise is in large part false: the medium used does serve to indicate the truth of a claim.

(As someone who's made a point of publishing pseudonymousely and in numerous online, unreviewed media, I'm aware of the challenges of trying to assert facts, even those which are reasonably independently verifiable, without the benefits of a persistent and highly-established identity or other indicia of trust, reputation, or credentialing. In balance I prefer the freedoms that come with this, though the challenges are also considerable.)

Re: Facebook freezes Venezuela president Maduro's page over Covid-19

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Have you read what you linked? There’s a lot of supposition and extrapolation on undefined terms. A lot of words as an excuse to bash a country already under attack. It’s not like Sweden doesn’t have a long history of imperialism either. I’m well aware we communists aren’t welcome on HN. Considering it’s US-centric and has a bourgeois focus, it’s not surprising it would welcome only right-wing politics. Still, it doe…

[flagged]

Re: Facebook freezes Venezuela president Maduro's page over Covid-19

#223

Say you are successful tech Billionaire. Watching your other billionaire friend's hubris get the better of him, and decide to take up flying only to crash into the ground. You go through some phase of self reflection, and realize you won't live forever, and so decide you can make the world a better place. You consult some self help books, listen to some new age mysticism, and read some exciting woke ideas about gende…

This misses the part where Facebook got massive complaints and government investigations over not doing anything to prevent the spread of certain information. You can't have it both ways.

Having watched and listened to most (though not yet all) of last Thursday's House Energy and Commerce hearings on disinformation in social media[1] does show considerable concern from both GOP and Democratic members.

Though the specific tenor of complaints differs.

Democrats for the most part are concerned with disinformation and racial, ethnic, and gender bias.

Republicans tend to raise issues of perceived political bias, disrespect to sitting / former electoral officeholders, social values issues (notably transgender and other LBGTQ+ matters), bullying, suicide, and policies concerning what is perceived as legitimate legal terminalogy concerning immigration.

I see frustration and anger largely equal on both sides. The underlying factors however differ by parties.

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dw6wJ7dFiPs

Re: Facebook freezes Venezuela president Maduro's page over Covid-19

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously they can and they do. We are discussing whether that is a good thing overall, which is further complicated by the political issues surrounding Venezuela and its current.. dual government.

Venezuela does not have a duel government. It has a government that won the UN certified election and an opposition leader that receives 100% of the US media industry's support.

Come on, link me the source where it says the UN certified the results, I'll be waiting... But I know that you won't link anything that is not from Telesur or RT and that it doesn't exists since they haven't allowed the UN to oversight the elections for quite a while.

Re: Facebook freezes Venezuela president Maduro's page over Covid-19

#226
The programmers from bigtechs are a shame to the country, giving backdoors to NSA/FBI so they can rule the country on they distorced notion of reality and conduct. But, what I can say, Internet has became the FBI, theres no unlogged machinne, no unlogged connection, no unlogged download, no unlogged transfer, all scripts... With all the OS metadata that you take, you spy, steal and take royalties on users inventions and patents, you buried America to a mass surveilence Big brother, planted home terrorism. And bring the entire world they corruption circles, dumping all countries liders phones, computers, lines, signal and wires, manipulating the midia, crashing planes, causing death, rage and lies, a perfect psicopath FBI world. The intelligence hacking forks agents, under russian/china flags, mocking in to their oun citizens, instiganting violence and supporting racism. The FBI brilliant Bitcoin invention to profit on hackers arrests. The linux intrusions with back doors into theur basis, direct in the foudantions. And all this, all, is in your house, my friend, with Aws, Face, Micros, Yout, goog, inst, tesl... you do nothing plugged, without an alarm setted, and if they want, they get you. You collaborate with the end of criativity and fund the shitcorruptnet. Tks

Re: Facebook freezes Venezuela president Maduro's page over Covid-19

#227
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do you propose we do that, [...] ? Stop lying to them.

Good, let's try to convince anti-vaxxers, Q people, Covid-deniers and what not of that, it will surely work! Of course it won't, because people tend to listen to other people due to a variety of reasons ( personal charisma, luck, circumstances, etc.). We wouldn't have cults and science deniers otherwise.

> Good, let's try to convince anti-vaxxers, Q people, Covid-deniers and what not of that, it will surely work!

You don't seem to understand. Don't tell them on Day 1 that mask are useless, and on Day 2 that mask are mandatory under threat of jail. Tell them on Day 1 that you fucked up and destroyed mask supplies a few years before and that you're not prepared anymore. Though, that will never happen as these people want to get re-elected and do-no-wrong.

If masks are useless on Day 1, they are useless on Day 2. If not, it means that people making these statement are full of shit on potentially ANY subject and thus can not be looked upon to (including vaccination).

Re: Facebook freezes Venezuela president Maduro's page over Covid-19

#228

Can we just all agree that censorship is bad? All this "nuance" about censorship vs deplatforming, or worries about misinformation, just sound like rationalizing something we know is wrong. This power is always abused. It's always just another way to say "sure, I believe in democracy, so long as I get to 'educate' you and prevent you from hearing anything that might change your mind about who to vote for". Religion i…

I agree that censorship of science is bad. Giving powerful people a free megaphone for their opinions and anecdotal bs is also bad. Nobody believes there is one right answer, but amplifying stupid is a recipe for disaster.

Science is merely a tool. It's conclusions still must be interpreted and translated to fit in to a human shaped system. There are almost as many interpretations of the conclusions of science as there are interpretations of religious texts.

Science shows us that eating too much leads to heart disease and shortens your lifespan. What conclusions do we draw from this? An extra 15 years of life is worth 90 years of a bland diet? Different people draw different conclusions.

My point is that science alone is not a comprehensive guide to how a life should be lived. It requires some extra interpretation.

In this Maduro COVID miracle cure situation it's obviously a ridiculous claim and could mislead thousands of people into taking a placebo pill and pulling their masks off and endangering the lives of other people.

Facebook truly believes that they are right in their conclusion that Maduro's interpretation of "science" will lead to people getting hurt. They have a moral obligation to stop it lest someone accuse them of having blood on their hands.

However, Maduro being in power has surely caused many thousands of people to die from political violence and starvation. What if stopping him from exposing himself as a fool and a liar has extended his position of power for another year? Psychology is also a science. The psychology behind why people would rally harder around a censored dictator. Which interpretation of science would kill more people?

The answers aren't always clear.

Re: Facebook freezes Venezuela president Maduro's page over Covid-19

#229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook doing it of its own volition is one thing, and I'd argue they are within the right to do so. Government pressurizing Facebook to censor stuff is entirely other ballgame, which poses a bigger risk, and nobody seems to be paying attention to. (Most attention is given to the content being censored, not the actors behind the censorship).

I agree that this is an issue. The first amendment should protect private actors here from government influence over their own membership policies, other than certain narrow exceptions like protected classes. Don't like that they ban too many left-wingers/right-wingers? Feel free to get mad about it, just don't get thinking that this is somehow illegal, or should be.

I think people are mad about the perceived abuse of liability protections enjoyed by these private actors. In my opinion that is totally valid.

Re: Facebook freezes Venezuela president Maduro's page over Covid-19

#230
post #33

Not sure about this - I don’t think government leaders or anybody should be censored. Better to have public health messages as part of the platform than to censor It’s a fine line between hate and misinformation and dissent (Clearly the content in question is wrong; but in other cases, WHO and others been proven incorrect - eg on masks and asymptotic transmission) Don’t know what the answer is, we don’t want echo cha…

Obviously Maduro is a problematic despotic leader, but who are Facebook to be arbiters of thrush and falsehood? We’ve gone down the path of good intentions that leads to hell. Does this not interfere with self determination? Is there one true north now? Have Facebook found all truth? This is getting ridiculous.

There was never good intentions here, they just started at the most palatable points and will keep cranking it up as they can.
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