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How can you tell if someone is lying?

theatlantic.com

11–20 of 363 posts

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#11

Two thoughts: 1) If law enforcement ever has the time, they might want to play Maffia or Werewolf. Playing those games enough makes you realize how idiosyncratic lying can be. 2) I'm glad to know that my lecture on lying when I studied psychology basically had the same conclusions as this article.

> Playing those games enough makes you realize how idiosyncratic lying can be.

In my view this is just one more error springing from the root error of turning "a jury of your peers" into "a jury of random strangers". One point of being judged by a jury of your peers is that they are familiar with the types of things you're likely to do.

But another is that your peers are familiar with the ways in which you're likely to react to things.

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#12
This was good, and I mostly agree that using verbal strategies that amount to digging into/reviewing the details of what a person is claiming is the best way to detect liars.

The TSA thing at the end seems like a bit of a derail though:

But, Mann says, without knowing how many would-be terrorists slipped through security undetected, the success of such a program cannot be measured. And, in fact, in 2015 the acting head of the TSA was reassigned after Homeland Security undercover agents in an internal investigation successfully smuggled fake explosive devices and real weapons through airport security 95 percent of the time.

I don't doubt the TSA "behavioral detection" is extremely ineffective, but presumably TSA is mostly leaning on other means to detect dangers and failure to detect weapons is more on the xray/backscatter scanners. It doesn't strike me as realistic for TSA to use verbal techniques like asking each passenger to sketch out his travel story to detect if he's lying about having a gun.

One interesting difference it raises is lying about the past/experienced events vs. lying about future intentions. Their techniques seem mostly geared towards differentiating between a person accurately recalling an event from memory vs reciting a fabricated version of their memory/actions. It makes sense this would be helpful for police interrogating a suspect, but it's not intuitively obvious the underlying idea maps to detecting someone lying about their intended future actions.

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#13
Just think of it as like a GAN neural network.

The liar and the discriminator continue to evolve in an arms race.

I, as an average discriminator can probably tell the bad liars but could be fooled by the good ones.

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#14
post #7

Any time I talk to someone about this evidence it's always "yeah, most people suck at telling liars, but I'm good at it." Lake Wobegon effect for people reading.

Any time I read about spotting liars I thought "man, I don't know how other people do it, but I suck at detecting lies".

I mostly think this because every time someone on TV insists they're innocent, I believe them, and then they turn out to be guilty.

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#15
post #7

Any time I talk to someone about this evidence it's always "yeah, most people suck at telling liars, but I'm good at it." Lake Wobegon effect for people reading.

I think people probably immediately think about how they react to their spouse or other very close relationships, and I suspect (haven't looked it up) that people are actually pretty good at detecting lies in those situations because we have so much experience with how that person acts.

Detecting the lies of strangers? Yeah... good luck.

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#16
post #7

Any time I talk to someone about this evidence it's always "yeah, most people suck at telling liars, but I'm good at it." Lake Wobegon effect for people reading.

This article primarily focuses on the ineffectiveness of using non-verbal cues. It doesn’t really go into that much depth on how easily (or not) liars can be detected by analyzing what they actually say. It briefly mentions that this method appears more effective (although the accuracy was still only 80% or so).

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#17
Most of us can’t reliably tell when a romantic interest is actively signaling their mutual interest. If we can’t get cooperative activities right, most of us don’t have a chance to spot a liar through nonverbal cues. The fact is that random effects are huge when dealing with people. Is that person you’re interrogating not showing emotion because they’re a psychopath, or because they were taught not to display emotion? Is someone not looking a cop in the eye because they are lying, or because staring someone in the eye is perceived as defiance in many cultures and they don’t want to anger the cop? We’ll probably never be perfectly accurate at spotting lies. A bunch of biometric measurements might help, but current polygraph techniques can allegedly be beaten with training. If trained polygraph techs with special equipment can be beat I don’t know what rules of thumb we’re ever going to give to the general public that will work.

If you know someone really well, you might have a decent chance of knowing when they are acting unusual. Such is the case with parents and teenagers, but suspicion often gets the best of the parents and they misinterpret the cues that they spotted.

A good method would seem to be to catch someone on a logical contradiction, but that has issues when someone is under emotional distress. And emotional distress tends to appear often when someone is innocent but is afraid the evidence points towards them. The family cat may have knocked over Mom’s favorite vase, but the child is less interested in the truth and more interested in avoiding a spanking- so they embellish whatever story they had (in a misguided attempt to make it more believable), which introduces contradictions that the mom notices. The kid technically lied with the embellishments but was innocent of breaking a vase, and gets spanked when they didn’t deserve it. Then imagine the kid’s emotional distress being even higher the next time something happens.

I’m sure that there are a lot of learned people out there that study lying, but I agree with the article’s main theme that most of us can’t reliably tell when our why someone is lying, and we’re overconfident in our abilities.

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#18
post #12

This was good, and I mostly agree that using verbal strategies that amount to digging into/reviewing the details of what a person is claiming is the best way to detect liars. The TSA thing at the end seems like a bit of a derail though: But, Mann says, without knowing how many would-be terrorists slipped through security undetected, the success of such a program cannot be measured. And, in fact, in 2015 the acting he…

IIRC their 95% failure includes failing to spot explosives and the like in their scanners

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#19

Two thoughts: 1) If law enforcement ever has the time, they might want to play Maffia or Werewolf. Playing those games enough makes you realize how idiosyncratic lying can be. 2) I'm glad to know that my lecture on lying when I studied psychology basically had the same conclusions as this article.

Among Us is the most recent version of those games, and it made me realize how good my friends were at gaslighting me.

Re: How can you tell if someone is lying?

#20
post #13

Just think of it as like a GAN neural network. The liar and the discriminator continue to evolve in an arms race. I, as an average discriminator can probably tell the bad liars but could be fooled by the good ones.

I read the article. It sounds more like practically everyone is stuck in a steady state of believing the same "tells" like fidgeting, averting gaze, and stuttering they have been told forever, and those things don't work. That's not really like a GAN at all.

Additionally what you say about being able to spot the average liar, as an average person, is contrary to the article. I would encourage you to read the article more carefully to distill the main points.

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