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EU experts to say nuclear power qualifies for green investment label: document

reuters.com

341–350 of 567 posts

Re: EU experts to say nuclear power qualifies for green investment label: document

#341
post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are talking about time frames that are many times longer than the existence of modern humans as a species. We have absolute zero clue what most humans did 200k years ago, we have only little knowledge what humans did 4000 years ago. How can you expect us to communicate with a world in eight hundred thousand years, or 1.6 million years? We don't even manage to get any of the nuclear waste out of our oceans we put t…

Why does it matter if some hypothetical future civilization cannot understand it though? If humanity as we know it is gone then compared to that some random future bad mining accident seems silly to worry about.

Sure but there are other dangers, some of this stuff has to be cooled. It has to be guarded. The place to store it has to be secure from all kinds of influences we can't control etc. To cite wikipedia:

> However, even a storage space hundreds of meters below the ground might not be able to withstand the pressures of one or more future glaciations with thick sheets of ice resting on top of the rock, deforming it and creating internal strains.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_geological_repository

We have made surprisingly little progress in the regard of long term storage, because the timespans involved and the potential dangers are not manageable by humans atm.

The question is do we want to put more on the pile or not? If the alternative is to destroy our planets with coal and co the answer should be clear.

But take Germany for example. We've built up wind energy from 0 to more output than nuclear energy in 15 years. I think this is preferable to nuclear energy which is not that dangerous but has the potential to become a unmanageable catastrophe at some point.

When we look at global warming there are two nations that need to act. China and the US, producing around 50% of Green House Gases. Both have more wind, way more space and potentially more money than Germany (China announced last year that they are gonna spend 1.5 Trillion USD in the next decades to become greener).

Re: EU experts to say nuclear power qualifies for green investment label: document

#342
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ridiculous Arm-chair Concept: - What if we make a 1 meter wall thick lead / steel container and seal the waste in and leave it? Surely nothing can break it, not even an earthquake. Just make a giant tennis court sized containers and dump stuff in there. We know how to build bridges, surely we can build large containers. Just want to learn, I am sure this is proposed and would love to know why its a stupid idea.

What if we made a giant four sided pyramid out of stone, and used the inner 1% of its volume to store your box? We could put it in the middle of the desert, and hope it gets covered in sand.

begins quest for ancient nuclear waste in Egypt

Re: EU experts to say nuclear power qualifies for green investment label: document

#343
post #320
post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you actually watched the video ? "Turbines in the 1 to 2 MW range typically use 130 to 240 m3 of concrete for the foundations". https://www.ge.com/renewableenergy/wind-energy/onshore-wind/...

You were talking about windmills a moment ago, now you're talking about turbines? You're very confusing.

So, you obviously didnt watched the video.

Yes my bad, in my native language windmill and wind turbine are the same word.

I was talking about wind turbines, as you can see in the video.

Re: EU experts to say nuclear power qualifies for green investment label: document

#344
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wind power is cheap when it's windy. When it's still the cost is $+inf. The grid still needs to maintain it's AC frequency. Wind power producers should be required to buy some kind of base load generation credits.

It's always windy somewhere. You just need to expand the electrical grid. We are still far from the point where we have enough wind that any of it goes unused. Also what is the cost of storing that energy? It's so much cheaper to generate it might still come out cheaper.

Texas was 5 minutes away from a total grid failsafe collapse if the grid frequency had continued to drop, and it just happened that pretty much all of North America was undergoing high usage. Uncontrolled energy are not sustainable at scale.

Re: EU experts to say nuclear power qualifies for green investment label: document

#345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dirty bombs aren't an issue. You might want to ask yourself why we've never seen one used, especially if you understand how easy it is to obtain the necessary materials. IIRC we've only caught a handful of devices (none exploded). Also we have to consider when it explodes, it just doesn't make enough radiation. It is pretty difficult to generate enough radiation that would actually cause an increase in cancer rates (…

Terrorists are not known to be the most logical people, to be honest. They are going to try anything that can generate terror in large scale and a dirty bomb is a very, very terrorizing thing to general population. General population thinks anything with radiation is panic worthy, even though there isn't that big of a deal.

> They are going to try anything that can generate terror in large scale

Sounds they better write blog posts about google and facebook tracking

Re: EU experts to say nuclear power qualifies for green investment label: document

#346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just don't really see how this is true. Isn't the basic idea to just dig a really deep hole somewhere geologically stable and dump it in? My impression isn't that the problem isn't solvable, but simply that no one has actually made the appropriate investment yet. That sounds like the same catch-22 as the rest of this. We've thrown up our hands and gone "Not worth it" and then our lack of investment in proper storag…

Research has been ongoing since the 70s to find geologically stable underground storage, this is not a solved problem.

No. This is not a real problem. If it were NPPs would not store spent fuel on site.

The reality is that it's a hypothetical problem. Even the simple real problem of storing spent fuel is not that of a problem, because there's not that much of it. And while it's hot it needs water then moving air anyway.

Long term storage is a nice idea, but in reality it's easy (dump anywhere down enough that it doesn't matter) and the later we solve it the more certain we can be that we did it right (more data, more time spent on finding the right solution).

Re: EU experts to say nuclear power qualifies for green investment label: document

#347
post #329

It still remains a waste of money if you have other sources: https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2009/ee/b8099... Nuclear is just too slow to fix our CO2 problems https://www.reuters.com/article/us-energy-nuclearpower/nucle...

What else do you propose as replacement for coal and gas power plants? Who expects nuclear energy to fix our CO2 problems? In the following decades, it is supposed to slow down CO2 buildup, not "fix our CO2 problems".

> What else do you propose as replacement for coal and gas power plants?

Renewables

> Who expects nuclear energy to fix our CO2 problems?

It's the main claim of the Nuclear AstroTurf campaign.

> In the following decades, it is supposed to slow down CO2 buildup, not "fix our CO2 problems".

As I've shown: it is not the appropriate tool to do that in an efficient way.

Re: EU experts to say nuclear power qualifies for green investment label: document

#348
post #6
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After having read Gates’ latest book on climate change, one metaphor that stuck with me was the one on nuclear energy. It’s as if the Wright brothers invented the first airplane, flew off, crashed, lost every passenger, and then we collectively dropped the entire technology and every promise it held. Never to be visited again. Humans are weird. (and I know the accidents were worse, but we iterated on car and plane sa…

It's worse than that. It's like they succeeded and then many decades later flight MH17 happened and the world collectively lost its mind and declared air travel as inherently unsafe and condemned all research into it as dangerous. The issue though, is that energy production is mostly quiet unless there's a problem, but people do see personal benefit in air travel. Add to that: Coal is a silent killer, it's not obviou…

Interesting historical perspective since bomb planes transformed human warfare and was critical in the development of first ww1 and then more so during ww2. While not fully unique, the idea of killing the morale of the citizens rather than confronting the military was an insight many leader found from the bomb planes, and the idea of nuclear bombs are almost impossible without the idea of air travel.

Re: EU experts to say nuclear power qualifies for green investment label: document

#349
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying Nuclear waste is not a problem is like saying taking a shit in your neighbors yard is not a problem. Shit can be packed into plastic bags, composted, and eventually stops smelling. Some of us believe that if we can't generate power without creating waste for future generations, we should go without the power. Seriously, we don't need it.

You know what, you’re right- I agree. However our largest energy creation mechanism is absolutely destroying the planet in non-linear and difficult to measure ways. Coal is not a dramatic killer but it kills us in droves, now and long into the future. Nuclear waste, in comparison, is more of a “known” issue, and were scared of what we know. I’m talking about coal because Sweden is displacing its nuclear power draw wi…

Where are Sweden, which does not have any coal plants and is a net exporter of energy replace nuclear with coal?

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/energy-consumption-by-sou...

That claim is simply plain misinformation.

For the import vs export of energy you find that here:

http://media.matochklimat.nu/2021/02/image1.jpg

Sweden import much more coal energy when Barsebäck and Ringhals was up and running.

Source for graph: http://matochklimat.nu/analys-svensk-el-fortsatter-att-trang...

Re: EU experts to say nuclear power qualifies for green investment label: document

#350

There's a lot of straw men being fought in the comments again. The main issue with nuclear power in Europe has always been the storage of nuclear waste, for which many countries still don't have a long-term solution. Proponents of nuclear power like to pretend the opposition exists merely on the basis of "but what if it goes boom!", so they don't need to face the reality that countries like Germany are sitting on a l…

Probably a dumb question, but why can’t we just blast nuclear waste out into space with a rocket? Seems like a rather small payload in the grand scheme of things.
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