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Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

reuters.com

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Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#161

Post by Someone »

darawk wrote: post #110
foepys wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All German car manufacturers are heavily unionized. VW has one of the strongest unions in Germany and is one of the largest car manufacturers in the world.

That's fine for companies in industries that are reasonably mature. But if you want to start a new company in a dynamic industry, Germany is very much not where you want to be. German GDP per capita is about 45k, as compared to 65k per capita in the US. But that hides a lot. Germany's most productive city is Berlin. Berlin's GDP per capita is....45k. The US on the other hand has cities like San Francisco, with a GDP…

“German GDP per capita is about 45k […] Germany's most productive city is Berlin. Berlin's GDP per capita is....45k”

That can’t be both true. If the average is 45k, there must be higher ones, unless GDP per capita is a flat 45k across all its cities.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#162

Post by input_sh »

villgax wrote: post #85

people need to look at the AmazonNews twitter handle, spews corpo BS at every turn almost like some intern got hold of that account

To me it feels more like some executive on cocaine found out the Twitter password.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#164

Post by londons_explore »

oivey wrote: post #153
londons_explore wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean the quote about options is probably true. It just means employees won't be given any more options. Unionised workers typically get no or very few stock options compared to industries with no unionisation.

Unionized workers get what they negotiate for. Given how tech works, a Tesla union very well could demand options. It is absolutely false that unionization precludes employees getting options.

Except they usually don't... Unionized industries tend to be adversarial - if the employees get a better deal, then the employer does less well. Therefore receiving options is a poor negotiation tactic.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#165

Post by whiddershins »

Xylakant wrote: post #158
darawk wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where did you get this from? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_German_cities_by_GDP > Germany is actually the only country in the EU where GDP per capita is higher when the capital is excluded. Munich is at 80,000€, Frankfurt (Main) 95,000€, Hamburg 60,000€, Berlin 40,000€ [1]. I was using the city with the highest absolute GDP. That's a fair point that Munich has a higher GDP per capita. > You are talking abou…

You are very much ignoring a lot of historical developments that lead to the situation that Berlin is in. Berlin used to be an industrial powerhouse, many well-known companies were founded there - Siemens for example. Borsig, Varta, Osram, ... had large factories in the city. However, after WW2, Berlin was divided and the western part hard to reach, so most companies relocated, most industries disappeared. Siemens mo…

Most of my favorite audio software comes from Germany.

You make great points about Berlin and about GDP per capita.

It remains true that Europe doesn’t have nearly the number of startups that the United States does, and this is notable.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#166

Post by minism »

input_sh wrote: post #162
villgax wrote: post #85

people need to look at the AmazonNews twitter handle, spews corpo BS at every turn almost like some intern got hold of that account

To me it feels more like some executive on cocaine found out the Twitter password.

is this from https://twitter.com/kenklippenstein/status/13755366054154936... ?

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#167

Post by Jonnax »

missedthecue wrote: post #123
villgax wrote: post #85

people need to look at the AmazonNews twitter handle, spews corpo BS at every turn almost like some intern got hold of that account

They pretty beautifully baited Sen. Elizabeth Warren into running her mouth today. She wrote - " I'll fight to break up Big Tech so you’re not powerful enough to heckle senators with snotty tweets. " If she brings an anti-trust suit against them, it will be so easy for Amazon's lawyers to argue that she is only doing so to violate their first amendment rights, which she full out admitted to today.

They baited Warren by lying about the fact that Amazon warehouse / delivery employees have to urinate in bottles to meet deadlines?

The tweets from their account caused significant negative press for Amazon on news and social media across the world.

Amazon is a global company, this kind of disdain for employees isn't looked upon as favourably in other countries. It's bad for business.

Especially from an official PR channel.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#168

Post by raverbashing »

darawk wrote: post #110
foepys wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All German car manufacturers are heavily unionized. VW has one of the strongest unions in Germany and is one of the largest car manufacturers in the world.

That's fine for companies in industries that are reasonably mature. But if you want to start a new company in a dynamic industry, Germany is very much not where you want to be. German GDP per capita is about 45k, as compared to 65k per capita in the US. But that hides a lot. Germany's most productive city is Berlin. Berlin's GDP per capita is....45k. The US on the other hand has cities like San Francisco, with a GDP…

> Germany and most of Europe have no tech sector to speak of as a direct consequence of their labor and regulatory policies.

So what about a food delivery company with €1.238 billion (2019) in revenue per year? Good or bad?

For comparison Deliveroo is £476 million (2018) and DoorDash is $2.886 billion (2020)

That company was founded in Berlin (Delivery Hero).

> it has near zero presence in the most important industry of the 21st century

I guess most people never heard about them, because they target the local/European market. But they exist

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#169

Post by rsj_hn »

dragonwriter wrote: post #49
colinmhayes wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All economies consist of labor and capital vying for resources.

> All economies consist of labor and capital vying for resources Economies without property rights in capital do not. They may have other (and even more significant) problems, but they don't have that one.

"Economies without property rights in capital" is a convoluted way of saying "economies without capital", and so of course those economies do not have to worry about any conflict between labor and capital, just as societies without higher education don't need to worry about SAT scores declining.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#170

Post by viraptor »

eru wrote: post #111
viraptor wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> allowed every opportunity Unless you're also happy about shooting people starting a union or striking, you should read this article to learn why this is a really bad idea. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_union_busting_in_th...

Compare and contrast https://pseudoerasmus.com/2017/10/02/ijd/

I'm curious what you wanted to point out? (It's a really interesting read either way)
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