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Tell HN: Crypto Wallets Trust Wallet and Ledger appear to be compromised

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Re: Tell HN: Crypto Wallets Trust Wallet and Ledger appear to be compromised

#21
post #5

Simplest explanation is the most likely. Both wallets were accessed at the same time, indicating seed words for both wallets were exposed. Regardless of what your nephew remembers, or believes about how he handled his seeds, someone got access to that data. One culprit could be cloud hosting like iCloud, google docs, dropbox, etc.

I cannot stress this enough. The seed words on paper were never exposed. iCloud could explain his Trust Wallet, but not his Ledger wallet (with the seed words on paper, hidden and literally not seeing the light of day for years).

>I cannot stress this enough. The seed words on paper were never exposed.

AND they were generated via secure hardware? or did he just spin up a new key on an already compromised machine?

Re: Tell HN: Crypto Wallets Trust Wallet and Ledger appear to be compromised

#22
to everyone saying it's someone the nephew knew that stole the crypto, it can't be, right? because OP confirmed the thief's address had transactions from other addresses, so this seems like a remote adversary.

i'm very sorry to hear he lost $40k, especially because he was saving it for college... i can't even imagine that much money being a student so i just hope you guys can find some way to work this out... i guess.

that said, i don't think Ledger's security is to blame here... it is infinitely more likely that your nephew's computer was infected with something. for example, if he kept his trust wallet passphrase as a screenshot, perhaps that screenshot synched via iCloud to his PC, from which point the attacker was able to pick it up? or they were able to retrieve his iCloud session cookie?

there are a million times more entry vectors if you consider the PC (or, hell, Mac, or whatever it is) as the infected device. i'd wipe the shit out of it and start fresh, if your nephew intends to do anything else with crypto in the future.

Re: Tell HN: Crypto Wallets Trust Wallet and Ledger appear to be compromised

#24
Can you give us more reason as to why you're 100% sure the paper was not accessed? You don't need to tell us where it is/was, but your extreme certainty in that fact seems greater than the certainty I have about almost anything in my life.

Another possibility no one has mentioned yet: is it possible your nephew is lying? Perhaps he "stole" the cryptocurrency from himself, and went to his relative hoping they might give him pity money to get him back on his feet? Just a wild guess.

Re: Tell HN: Crypto Wallets Trust Wallet and Ledger appear to be compromised

#25
post #22

to everyone saying it's someone the nephew knew that stole the crypto, it can't be, right? because OP confirmed the thief's address had transactions from other addresses, so this seems like a remote adversary. i'm very sorry to hear he lost $40k, especially because he was saving it for college... i can't even imagine that much money being a student so i just hope you guys can find some way to work this out... i guess…

Your first point is spot-on.

But about the rest...the Ledger's wallet's seed words were on paper, never seen by a computer after it was generated.

His Trust Wallet, however, did have his seed words on his phone. But again, it has a 6-digit passcode.

Re: Tell HN: Crypto Wallets Trust Wallet and Ledger appear to be compromised

#26
post #24

Can you give us more reason as to why you're 100% sure the paper was not accessed? You don't need to tell us where it is/was, but your extreme certainty in that fact seems greater than the certainty I have about almost anything in my life. Another possibility no one has mentioned yet: is it possible your nephew is lying? Perhaps he "stole" the cryptocurrency from himself, and went to his relative hoping they might gi…

I have the transfer-to addresses. The thief has done this multiple times...for 7.5 BTC too, in one instance. He's not lying and has never been known to lie.

I'm sure in the same way you can be sure that if you were tasked with doing the same thing, you'll feel 100% confident that no one would be able to access that paper. And even if they did, they wouldn't know what they were looking at.

Re: Tell HN: Crypto Wallets Trust Wallet and Ledger appear to be compromised

#27
post #25
post #22

to everyone saying it's someone the nephew knew that stole the crypto, it can't be, right? because OP confirmed the thief's address had transactions from other addresses, so this seems like a remote adversary. i'm very sorry to hear he lost $40k, especially because he was saving it for college... i can't even imagine that much money being a student so i just hope you guys can find some way to work this out... i guess…

Your first point is spot-on. But about the rest...the Ledger's wallet's seed words were on paper, never seen by a computer after it was generated. His Trust Wallet, however, did have his seed words on his phone. But again, it has a 6-digit passcode.

yeah, the Ledger situation is still a mystery to me, and i can’t profess to know all that much about the security of the device.

i mean, humans make mistakes, and i suppose there is the chance that he slipped up at some point and typed it into his (probably) compromised computer at some point. but if i were take your word on it that that never happened... i really don’t know.

on the trust wallet - it doesn’t matter if he had a passcode. if his computer was compromised, and he signed into iCloud on it at -any- point, an attacker could do whatever they wanted with it.

Re: Tell HN: Crypto Wallets Trust Wallet and Ledger appear to be compromised

#29
So I’ve read through the comments, and I can see that you’re adamant the seed phrase isn’t the attach vector, but I’m going to be listing things down in order of what I see as being a rough probability, please don’t see any of this as accusatory in anyway - it’s more that I keep an eye on OpSec for crypto generally despite not being an expert.

First question; was the amount stored on the ledger stolen during a transaction? If so then he may have been exposed to the same targeted Metamask attack as experienced by an NXM founder https://medium.com/@hugh_karp/nxm-hack-update-72c5c017b48. This wouldn’t explain the BTC and LTC transactions though.

My collection of possibilities:

1. The seed phrase was exposed. Maybe not from your piece of paper, but perhaps it was saved onto a text file, jotted down into notes, captured somewhere else. I realise given the other comments you are likely to disregard this one, I get it, but it still seems to be the most likely from the outside looking in.

2. The computer used to make transactions was hacked, as per the Metamask hack above.

3. Your nephew got into trouble and needed money. I’m not saying he’s lying to you, but he could be trying to save face.

4. A device on his network got hacked and he was subjected to a pretty targeted attack which could have made false transactions on his behalf if he accepted the certificates on his device, maybe. Perhaps a worm on his computer propagated to his iPhone to read the trust key.

5. Both ledger, and Trust are compromised to remote attacks. This would mean someone has found a way to read the seed phrase from ledger and trust remotely and then dump the wallet entirely. This would also make him probably the first person in the world to face these vulnerabilities on both apps. Hopefully you can see why 1 & 3 seem more likely than this.

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