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Technical interview methods pale in comparison to playing Factorio with someone

erikmcclure.com

151–160 of 358 posts

Re: Technical interview methods pale in comparison to playing Factorio with someone

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hire quickly and fire quickly with a generous severance. That’s the only method that I’ve seen works effectively. Netflix does more with 2000 engineers that companies with 10-20x that. This also lets you take chances on engineers that weren’t “perfect” but had a lot of positives to offer.

> hire quickly and fire quickly This kind of mentality is not conducive to a well-functioning nation with people who have dependents and need stability.

I would reverse it.

The nation is not conducive to business if it can't provide healthcare and safety nets for those without work or in between jobs. In the US we are held hostage with healthcare based on our employers - if you're even lucky enough to have a stable job with benefits.

Re: Technical interview methods pale in comparison to playing Factorio with someone

#152

It seems like Factorio itself doesn't matter here, and that any programming language can be used instead. So really, this article is saying "live, self-directed coding is the best technical interview", which isn't very original.

There may be an anxiety factor which negatively impacts live coding interviews which wouldn't manifest as often in demonstrating similar skillsets in a game. It would be interesting to see how much of a difference something like this makes.

Re: Technical interview methods pale in comparison to playing Factorio with someone

#153
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt jobs for urban planners ask what cities you design in your free time. I doubt jobs for lawyers ask what cases you've argued in your free time. Why do we ask what software you've built in your free time for software engineering interviews?

Because in software personal projects are easy to do. It just takes drive and skill, which are both relevant skills. Passion as also valuable, it tends to show that people are willing to learn and have interest in the type of work that they will be doing. Artist and even urban planners regularly have a portfolio, I don't see how this is any different.

> drive and skill

It also takes the privilege of time. For example, a single childless person likely has more time for personal projects than a single parent of 3. This does not mean one is a better candidate than the other.

> Passion as also valuable, it tends to show that people are willing to learn and have interest in the type of work that they will be doing.

You can have both of those things without "passion".

Re: Technical interview methods pale in comparison to playing Factorio with someone

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hire quickly and fire quickly with a generous severance. That’s the only method that I’ve seen works effectively. Netflix does more with 2000 engineers that companies with 10-20x that. This also lets you take chances on engineers that weren’t “perfect” but had a lot of positives to offer.

> hire quickly and fire quickly This kind of mentality is not conducive to a well-functioning nation with people who have dependents and need stability.

I definitely think that if every employer used Netflix's strategy there would be issues, but if the job market had more churn stability would take on a different meaning. Imagine that it was expected to change jobs frequently if you or your employer was unhappy; I'd bet lots of people would be way happier.

The problem is of course that even if you have every reason to think that some other place would hire you, you need a degree of slack to begin with. There aren't any easy answers there, but that's where I'd say an expanded social safety net should come in.

Re: Technical interview methods pale in comparison to playing Factorio with someone

#155
I dislike defining seniority by your technical knowledge or skills. I have a different, I think more useful definition that I use. It overlaps a little bit but excludes knowledge, intelligence and focuses on mindset and ownership.

More senior person is one that has more mature approach to their work. One that can get better results with less resources. Typically more senior people can also accept wider variety of tasks.

What is better results and what is less resources will depend on the project.

It has nothing to do with the knowledge or experience, in my opinion.

You can have good senior person get better results in a technology they have no previous experience with compared to a very experienced / intelligent / knowledgeable person that has track record of making bad decisions. Senior person will use their good judgement to warn the manager they are running outside of their knowledge and to know when they need to use some resources (like help) from somebody more knowledgeable.

A knowledgeable but less senior person may think they know anything but not be able to recognize they are trying to achieve something that is outside their area of expertise or not be able to recognize or accept they are bad at something.

For me senior developer is somebody I can entrust they will put honest, worthwhile attempt at making good decisions when it is called for and recognize when they need to come back for further direction.

Senior developers show ownership in that they seek to uncover problems and discuss those problems with the team, proactively and productively. Senior developers can smell problems even if they don't necessarily know the solution. They can act on the signs of the bad smell and maybe seek discussion (with architect? client? manager? team?) to figure out what is going on and what needs to be done further.

Senior developers understand there are many ways/levels to solve the problem and sometimes solution isn't more code but maybe procedural change or a shift in paradigm.

Senior developers can meaningfully help/direct more junior team members individually without taking over their projects.

Senior developers can keep working relationships even with difficult people or people they don't like.

And so on.

Re: Technical interview methods pale in comparison to playing Factorio with someone

#156
As good-intentioned as this is... it's the type of behaviour that just adds more barriers for women trying to break into tech.

When hobbies like these - video games made exclusively by white men [0], played (almost) exclusively by men - are used to assess a candidate's ability as a software engineer, who do you think benefits?

[0]https://factorio.com/game/about

Re: Technical interview methods pale in comparison to playing Factorio with someone

#157
post #63
post #22

This winter break I spent an embarrassing amount of time on Satisfactory on Steam, which is essentially a nicer (and probably easier) modern refresh of Factorio. While I played, I came to similar conclusions to the article. Building factories in this game is very very similar conceptually to building software. I ran into exactly the same problems that I ran while I build software like: - If I don't plan ahead enough…

Disclaimer: I've only played the Factorio demo. If that's the analogy, then I don't think it captures the core difficulty of software, which is unknown unknowns. That is, you write something that depends on an external system working a certain way, you follow its spec and depend on it working that way, and then it just ... doesn't, and you have to find exactly where it deviates, possibly making up some complicated kl…

IANAProgrammer, to some extent I create my own GIGO issues which are like small instances of poorly defined behaviour. Sometimes you'll realise your whole world has ground to a halt and it's a conveyor backed up because one item arrived at an inserter and blocked it.

I play a bit of DSP but have at least 3 different mitigations which are akin to input sanitising. However, if you just stick a filtered inserter by a conveyor to grab errant materials then it can comeback and bite you ... though I've found either I can route them back to the proper channel or I can get away with the technical debt by throwing enough storage at them and leaving it until the thing needs refactoring.

You can have too much realism! I like that every green-circuit board works, rather than getting failures of systems that use that item with some random errors (that increase of your closer to the sun, say). I think that would be too frustrating.

Re: Technical interview methods pale in comparison to playing Factorio with someone

#158

I have a question about whiteboard interviews. I have used and continued to use whiteboard coding in interviews. However I emphasize to the person that I am interviewing that there is no expectation that what they write on the whiteboard compile, or even be a real language. I'll usually do a quick demo and joke that my own white boarding looks like the bastard child of Python and FORTRAN. The point of the exercise is…

The problem is that algorithms were discovered by mathematicians/computer scientists doing proofs for 40 hrs / week. It isn't something that can be reasoned about. It must be learned and memorized. This forces people to study that which is already embedded in the tools they use to perform their job.

If you ask people to whiteboard out a system at a high level that accomplishes some task, then that can be reasoned about and better tests their understanding.

Re: Technical interview methods pale in comparison to playing Factorio with someone

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now check out Dyson Sphere Program, it's like those games but in space ;)

I just got it recently and I enjoyed the heck out of it.

I've got to the "I probably need to leave my starter solar system in order to increase my DS production rate" stage, and honestly I think that's my limit. I find I can't recall where everything is (I think that can be fixed to some extent) and I'm not about to start writing documentation for a game!

Re: Technical interview methods pale in comparison to playing Factorio with someone

#160

As good-intentioned as this is... it's the type of behaviour that just adds more barriers for women trying to break into tech. When hobbies like these - video games made exclusively by white men [0], played (almost) exclusively by men - are used to assess a candidate's ability as a software engineer , who do you think benefits? [0] https://factorio.com/game/about

Why wouldn't a woman be able to be good at a game made by a white man?
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