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Employees are happier when led by people with deep expertise (2016)

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Re: Employees are happier when led by people with deep expertise (2016)

#41

Post by speby »

sokoloff wrote: post #30

The more junior you are, the more likely it is that not only can your boss do your job, they can do it better than you can. The more senior you become, the less likely that is to be the case. How many CEOs could do all of the CFO, COO, CTO, and General Counsel's jobs? Zero. How many programming team leads can do the junior programmer's job? Basically/hopefully all of them.

This ... it is a total fantasy to think that the leader(s) of a company are somehow aware of all of the work that is entailed by every job in the company. For really small companies, or junior employees with a line manager, that may be true.

But as you said, the more senior you become, things completely change. There isn't a CEO in the world that could do all of the jobs they hire other executives to do (finance, sales, tax/accounting, HR, marketing, technology, operations, legal). It's impossible.

Re: Employees are happier when led by people with deep expertise (2016)

#42

Post by GavinMcG »

speby wrote: post #41
sokoloff wrote: post #30

The more junior you are, the more likely it is that not only can your boss do your job, they can do it better than you can. The more senior you become, the less likely that is to be the case. How many CEOs could do all of the CFO, COO, CTO, and General Counsel's jobs? Zero. How many programming team leads can do the junior programmer's job? Basically/hopefully all of them.

This ... it is a total fantasy to think that the leader(s) of a company are somehow aware of all of the work that is entailed by every job in the company. For really small companies, or junior employees with a line manager, that may be true. But as you said, the more senior you become, things completely change. There isn't a CEO in the world that could do all of the jobs they hire other executives to do (finance, sal…

The comment said that your boss can likely do your job, not that everyone more senior than you can.

Re: Employees are happier when led by people with deep expertise (2016)

#43

Post by skohan »

skeeter2020 wrote: post #24

I think the conclusions miss the mark slightly and focus on a symptom of good bosses: they care about tasks from a state of understanding what is required to do them well, they have empathy for the challenges, and respect for the talent in completing them. Obviously the easiest way to get to this perspective is to experience it first-hand, hence the correlation between those who could do the job and being good manage…

> probably not top 5-10%, because they also cared about the non-technical requirements that a good manager needs to cover

It sounds like you're saying that top-tier engineers are not generally qualified in terms of non-technical requirements, and I don't know that this assertion is justified.

From my perspective, as a relatively new technical manager who also spent years as an engineer working with technical managers, it's not only about empathy but also about having a thorough understanding of, or at least an accurate intuition around the subject matter. When I was working as an engineer, what I often found frustrating about working with non-technical managers is that they often work on the wrong set of parameters. Discussions often revolve around details which are not really important to the success of the project, or are relevant to the work, and often the team is led down a more difficult path than is necessary because requirements are set in the wrong terms.

I think it's possible to compensate to some degree with empathy and people skills, but it's hard to compete with having the experience and speaking the language.

Re: Employees are happier when led by people with deep expertise (2016)

#44

Post by whatshisface »

speby wrote: post #41
sokoloff wrote: post #30

The more junior you are, the more likely it is that not only can your boss do your job, they can do it better than you can. The more senior you become, the less likely that is to be the case. How many CEOs could do all of the CFO, COO, CTO, and General Counsel's jobs? Zero. How many programming team leads can do the junior programmer's job? Basically/hopefully all of them.

This ... it is a total fantasy to think that the leader(s) of a company are somehow aware of all of the work that is entailed by every job in the company. For really small companies, or junior employees with a line manager, that may be true. But as you said, the more senior you become, things completely change. There isn't a CEO in the world that could do all of the jobs they hire other executives to do (finance, sal…

>There isn't a CEO in the world that could do all of the jobs they hire other executives to do (finance, sales, tax/accounting, HR, marketing, technology, operations, legal). It's impossible.

Impossible, yet accomplished by thousands and thousands of small business owners every month.

Re: Employees are happier when led by people with deep expertise (2016)

#45

Post by varjag »

skohan wrote: post #43
skeeter2020 wrote: post #24

I think the conclusions miss the mark slightly and focus on a symptom of good bosses: they care about tasks from a state of understanding what is required to do them well, they have empathy for the challenges, and respect for the talent in completing them. Obviously the easiest way to get to this perspective is to experience it first-hand, hence the correlation between those who could do the job and being good manage…

> probably not top 5-10%, because they also cared about the non-technical requirements that a good manager needs to cover It sounds like you're saying that top-tier engineers are not generally qualified in terms of non-technical requirements, and I don't know that this assertion is justified. From my perspective, as a relatively new technical manager who also spent years as an engineer working with technical managers…

Essentially a manifestation of bikeshedding. Yep, very common.

Re: Employees are happier when led by people with deep expertise (2016)

#46

Post by yeswecatan »

j_walter wrote: post #39

This is no surprise really. Any major company promotes managers from within unless they have a lot of industry experience. A bank manager would have a hard time being a manager at any FANNG company (on the engineering side at least) no matter how good they are with people...you have to have at least some in depth understanding of what the company and department does. The best engineers don't usually make the best man…

I was actually looking forward to giving up some control as I became a manager. Unfortunately, we haven't hired anybody to fill the day to day void I left so I'm still doing my old job + now managing a small team.

Re: Employees are happier when led by people with deep expertise (2016)

#47

Post by afarrell »

PaulHoule wrote: post #2

I was personally taught by the store manager of a supermarket how to sweep the floor and of course that built respect for him and the organization. (e.g. he knew how to do every little task like sweep the floor, cut meat in the deli, bake bread, etc.) The (now retied) director of the art museum at Cornell could be seen out in his suit passing out pamphlets for an exhibition together with students promoting clubs and…

There is a dichotomy here. If an individual contributor is unclear whom they report to or what the product strategy is, then seeing the CTO contribute to numpy is not comforting.

As you say:

> It's nice to see the top guy, who performs like a top guy, doing the simple work.

Re: Employees are happier when led by people with deep expertise (2016)

#48

Post by alchemism »

PaulHoule wrote: post #2

I was personally taught by the store manager of a supermarket how to sweep the floor and of course that built respect for him and the organization. (e.g. he knew how to do every little task like sweep the floor, cut meat in the deli, bake bread, etc.) The (now retied) director of the art museum at Cornell could be seen out in his suit passing out pamphlets for an exhibition together with students promoting clubs and…

A 'good' sea captain will also exhibit this trait and step in to perform tasks of necessity.

Since safety at sea comes in large part from 'simple work' being done rigorously, it is heartening to see the top man wiping down a slick deck to prevent the chance of accidents.

Re: Employees are happier when led by people with deep expertise (2016)

#49

Post by pydry »

skeeter2020 wrote: post #24

I think the conclusions miss the mark slightly and focus on a symptom of good bosses: they care about tasks from a state of understanding what is required to do them well, they have empathy for the challenges, and respect for the talent in completing them. Obviously the easiest way to get to this perspective is to experience it first-hand, hence the correlation between those who could do the job and being good manage…

I see it mostly as a refutation of the idea that MBA style management-as-a generic-function works - nothing more.

Re: Employees are happier when led by people with deep expertise (2016)

#50

Post by FpUser »

sokoloff wrote: post #30

The more junior you are, the more likely it is that not only can your boss do your job, they can do it better than you can. The more senior you become, the less likely that is to be the case. How many CEOs could do all of the CFO, COO, CTO, and General Counsel's jobs? Zero. How many programming team leads can do the junior programmer's job? Basically/hopefully all of them.

I could imagine CEOs being capable of performing COO and CTO function. It will of course screw up main responsibilities so it is better not to mix.
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