Equivalent of 97% of Scotland’s 2020 electricity consumption was from renewables • Hacker News Board

Re: Equivalent of 97% of Scotland’s 2020 electricity consumption was from renewables

#91

Post by SamBam » Fri, Mar 26, 2021, 2:11 PM UTC

pydry wrote: post #31

aclelland wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Grid storage is such an interesting topic to me. We are all used to energy storage at a small scale (phone batteries, even electric cars) but the challenges of needing to store such vast amounts of energy seems like an almost impossible task, even the large Tesla battery in AU only seems to be used to help smooth the grid supply. It seems that the Scottish landscape might lend itself to more Hydro but that'll be an u…

There hasn't been nearly enough done on demand shaping. Rather than wondering how we can store all the excess capacity it's probably more cost effective to wonder how we can shift demand. Aluminum smelters in Germany use gargantuan amounts of electricity, for instance, but they can use 3x as much on Friday when power is cheap than Monday when it's not with relative ease. Using a powerwall to keep production steady wo…

Storage heaters, more efficient refrigerators, smart washers that turn on when electricity is cheap.

I really hope these kinds of things start to increase in popularity, but I think it needs more government intervention for it to happen.

Re: Equivalent of 97% of Scotland’s 2020 electricity consumption was from renewables

#92

Post by swarnie_ » Fri, Mar 26, 2021, 2:12 PM UTC

pydry wrote: post #45

martinald wrote: post #11

Really misleading article IMO. What this actually means is Scotland sometimes generated 200-300%+ of its demand from wind (and "exported" the rest), and sometimes low %age points and used other sources/imports. It makes it sound like Scotland is wind powered 97% of the time (only 3% more to go!), which is very different. There is an increasing crisis in the UK of negative electricity prices (typically when it is sunn…

>There is an increasing crisis in the UK of negative electricity prices It seems like an opportunity more than a crisis to me. There are tons of potential applications for "free" electricity. * Storage heating/cooling that's basically free * Manufacturing carbon neutral jet fuel * Cheaper aluminium production It could also lead to onshoring of certain industries which previously moved to locales with access to cheap…

Bringing the inf. online will take time and needs government backing.

I have my issues with this Tory decade but in this small area they've absolutely smashed it out the park.

Re: Equivalent of 97% of Scotland’s 2020 electricity consumption was from renewables

#93

Post by DC1350 » Fri, Mar 26, 2021, 2:12 PM UTC

neom wrote: post #5

"Not only do renewables reduce the impact of our electricity use on the climate, they are also generating jobs and income for communities around the country." I wish everyone thought that way, all I hear in Canada is "oh the jobs, oh the jobs, what will happen to the jobs...???"

Canadian oil workers who make $120k fresh out of high school with no education are never going to be satisfied with training for their new $70k clean energy jobs. The problem is good jobs, not just jobs. How bad does climate change have to be before the lost wages and income decline is worth it? That’s the real question that nobody ever wants to talk about.

Re: Equivalent of 97% of Scotland’s 2020 electricity consumption was from renewables

#94

Post by doikor » Fri, Mar 26, 2021, 2:13 PM UTC

Glench wrote: post #74

qwerty456127 wrote: post #2

How much do they pay? I've heard electricity is quite expensive in the UK so surviving a winter can be hard.

A few people in this thread are talking about electric heating being awful. And yeah, I think traditional electric resistance heating is expensive and not very high quality, but modern electric heat pumps are one of the most efficient forms of space heating we have, they can be run in reverse to cool houses too, and they increase comfort a lot — many systems allow you to have room-by-room control of the temperature.…

Yeah heat pumps are the answer to places like Scotland. As a bonus you get air conditioning.

They do have some problems with extreme cold (not really an issue in Scotland or most of Europe for that matter) but even in such a case should still be used together with plain resistance heating. But that kind of cold has very few people living there anyway (think -30c or colder)

Re: Equivalent of 97% of Scotland’s 2020 electricity consumption was from renewables

#95

Post by batpangolin » Fri, Mar 26, 2021, 2:14 PM UTC

eldaisfish wrote: post #13

martinald wrote: post #11

Really misleading article IMO. What this actually means is Scotland sometimes generated 200-300%+ of its demand from wind (and "exported" the rest), and sometimes low %age points and used other sources/imports. It makes it sound like Scotland is wind powered 97% of the time (only 3% more to go!), which is very different. There is an increasing crisis in the UK of negative electricity prices (typically when it is sunn…

spot on. Every time this comes up, it's the same BS. The actual figure for the UK grid (there is no separate Scotland grid) is just over 40% of net electrical energy demand supplied by renewable sources. If Scotland was severed from the grid it would require fossil fuels and nuclear just like the rest of the UK. The 97% figure is arrived at by taking British renewable energy that happens to be in Scotland and subtrac…

I don't see the problem with this number. Scotland (seen as a separate energy economy) sometimes exports energy to England and Wales, sometimes imports it. Scotland's production of renewable energy, considered in total MWh, represents 97% of its consumption of all electrical energy. Clearly, in dollar value, the number is smaller since they usually export at times of low prices and import at times of higher prices. That isn't the comparison that's being made.

Re: Equivalent of 97% of Scotland’s 2020 electricity consumption was from renewables

#96

Post by rolivercoffee » Fri, Mar 26, 2021, 2:15 PM UTC

londons_explore wrote: post #51

pydry wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There is an increasing crisis in the UK of negative electricity prices It seems like an opportunity more than a crisis to me. There are tons of potential applications for "free" electricity. * Storage heating/cooling that's basically free * Manufacturing carbon neutral jet fuel * Cheaper aluminium production It could also lead to onshoring of certain industries which previously moved to locales with access to cheap…

Sadly these 'negative' prices aren't available to regular people. Only a select few who can trade on the spot market can use them. If regular people could get paid to switch on space heaters, the negative prices would soon go away.

This is starting to happen: https://octopus.energy/agile/ I imaging more suppliers will start offering this soon.

(I'm not in anyway associated with Octopus btw, just interested in this sort of thing)

Re: Equivalent of 97% of Scotland’s 2020 electricity consumption was from renewables

#97

Post by JamesBarney » Fri, Mar 26, 2021, 2:15 PM UTC

captainmuon wrote: post #77

pydry wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There is an increasing crisis in the UK of negative electricity prices It seems like an opportunity more than a crisis to me. There are tons of potential applications for "free" electricity. * Storage heating/cooling that's basically free * Manufacturing carbon neutral jet fuel * Cheaper aluminium production It could also lead to onshoring of certain industries which previously moved to locales with access to cheap…

This. Transition to renewables is not just about replacing power plants, it is about changing demand structure. Negative prices are an incentive to build power buffers, or to use power when it is plenty. You can even do crazy things like make steel. One funny side effect that might happen is that for individuals, power will not become more expensive from renewable energy, but rather cheaper - so cheap that the meteri…

Why would power become cheaper for individuals?

Re: Equivalent of 97% of Scotland’s 2020 electricity consumption was from renewables

#98

Post by Glench » Fri, Mar 26, 2021, 2:15 PM UTC

doikor wrote: post #94

Glench wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few people in this thread are talking about electric heating being awful. And yeah, I think traditional electric resistance heating is expensive and not very high quality, but modern electric heat pumps are one of the most efficient forms of space heating we have, they can be run in reverse to cool houses too, and they increase comfort a lot — many systems allow you to have room-by-room control of the temperature.…

Yeah heat pumps are the answer to places like Scotland. As a bonus you get air conditioning. They do have some problems with extreme cold (not really an issue in Scotland or most of Europe for that matter) but even in such a case should still be used together with plain resistance heating. But that kind of cold has very few people living there anyway (think -30c or colder)

I've been wondering about this! I keep hearing that air-source heat pumps aren't great in pretty cold areas. Do you have any links or references on this? I live in the Northeast US and wanted to see what the options were and what people's experiences have been.

Re: Equivalent of 97% of Scotland’s 2020 electricity consumption was from renewables

#99

Post by bluecookeh93 » Fri, Mar 26, 2021, 2:16 PM UTC

londons_explore wrote: post #51

pydry wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There is an increasing crisis in the UK of negative electricity prices It seems like an opportunity more than a crisis to me. There are tons of potential applications for "free" electricity. * Storage heating/cooling that's basically free * Manufacturing carbon neutral jet fuel * Cheaper aluminium production It could also lead to onshoring of certain industries which previously moved to locales with access to cheap…

Sadly these 'negative' prices aren't available to regular people. Only a select few who can trade on the spot market can use them. If regular people could get paid to switch on space heaters, the negative prices would soon go away.

Octopus Agile makes them available to regular consumers. Last summer people regularly got paid to charge their electric cars during the night!

Re: Equivalent of 97% of Scotland’s 2020 electricity consumption was from renewables

#100

Post by CraigJPerry » Fri, Mar 26, 2021, 2:16 PM UTC

captainmuon wrote: post #77

pydry wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There is an increasing crisis in the UK of negative electricity prices It seems like an opportunity more than a crisis to me. There are tons of potential applications for "free" electricity. * Storage heating/cooling that's basically free * Manufacturing carbon neutral jet fuel * Cheaper aluminium production It could also lead to onshoring of certain industries which previously moved to locales with access to cheap…

This. Transition to renewables is not just about replacing power plants, it is about changing demand structure. Negative prices are an incentive to build power buffers, or to use power when it is plenty. You can even do crazy things like make steel. One funny side effect that might happen is that for individuals, power will not become more expensive from renewable energy, but rather cheaper - so cheap that the meteri…

It would be cool if i could use an electric car parked at home during the day to store some of that cheap electricity then spend it from the car back into the house at night.

When i looked into this last, it wasn’t common to have that bi-directional power flow capability. There was one, very expensive, Mitsubishi solution on the UK market around 2 years ago.