Earlier quoted context omitted.
nah, rebasing is white lies. everybody is in on it. not all lies are malicious. rebasing is "rewriting history". where I'm from "rewriting history" is lying..
> not all lies are malicious The Fossil manual is pretty clear about calling it deceit. “By discarding parentage information, rebase attempts to deceive the reader about how the code actually came together.” > where I’m from “rewriting history” is lying... What history? Rebase is normally used before push. Rebase is used before it’s “history” to someone other than yourself.
Fossil Chat
141–150 of 172 posts
Re: Fossil Chat
#142Earlier quoted context omitted.
You’d forsake an improvement for the sake of following the rest of the cattle? Have you used it, yet, to see if it sufficiently meets your way superior standard to break free from the herd?
Well yeah because git is, I find, good enough that I don’t have much desire to experiment with other SCM tools. Some people love customizing every part of their tool chain but to me it’s better to stick with something familiar with things like that so I can focus on solving my actual problem.
Re: Fossil Chat
#143HI! What it looks like: https://imgur.com/a/PaHExsp Here's Fossil 2.15 running on EC2: http://54.79.202.57/register - this link will allow you to create a new account. Alternatively, the "chat" user (password "chat") can be used if you don't want to make an account. [It used to have the ability to create additional users (with admin privs), with the result that the fossil instance rapidly began spouting SQL errors an…
https://docs.google.com/document/d/135kDqZYb6ZMnUV2ykZSEfNAN...
Short link: https://tinyurl.com/fossildemo
Re: Fossil Chat
#144Earlier quoted context omitted.
Heh. Building an scm is a great way to become so busy you don't have time for your actual work. Building a db is another great way. If I could be so unproductive...
> If I could be so unproductive... It goes much further than that... When one views a fossil-hosted forum post from the main fossil site or sqlite's site, they are looking at... - A forum post rendered by software Richard wrote. - Piped out to you via an HTTP server he wrote. - Served from an SCM he wrote. - Stored on a database package he wrote. - All coded in a text editor he wrote. Complete vertical integration. H…
Re: Fossil Chat
#145Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well yeah because git is, I find, good enough that I don’t have much desire to experiment with other SCM tools. Some people love customizing every part of their tool chain but to me it’s better to stick with something familiar with things like that so I can focus on solving my actual problem.
But have you tried Fossil to see if it does meet your way superior standard? Unless you're working on Linux kernel- or BSD-sized repositories, Fossil is arguably a better fit than Git. You don't need to customise anything out of the box—it's literally a single binary anywhere on your path and you have your version control, bug tracking, wiki, forum, chat, technotes, etc. in-house. Your team won't need to visit but on…
Re: Fossil Chat
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
What history, exactly, is being preserved? If I fix a bug before I commit, then I’m okay. If I commit the bug, then commit the fix, then squash, all locally on my own machine before I push anything, I’m “lying”? You don’t want the ability to edit your own mistakes before showing them to other people, even if you find them before you push? Fossil is not capturing my pre-commit keystrokes, so I can write code and delet…
I think (a) all of this was explained clearly in the post by SQLite (Fossil creator), and (b) you're overly sensitive to a disagreement about the definition of terms. I agree with him. You don't. That's fine - no kittens will be put to death depending on who is right.
I don't feel like it was clearly explained, which is why I asked those questions. There's no distinction between local private history and public history shared with others, there's no explanation for the arbitrary line drawn on transaction boundaries, or why those are more sacred than other kinds of project history. There's no clear explanation of why "project history" should be immutable, or even what constitutes "project history" exactly. It sounds generally like a good idea to keep history to me, heck I'm on board! But the reasons to be absolute about it have not at all been clearly established, only stated dogmatically.
Everyone jumping on me is defending the use of the words "dishonest", "fabricate", "white-wash", "lying", and "deceive" as though they're merely accurate and not what they are: intentional attempts to induce shame about rebase. My point is, simply, that this is spin and it's misplaced because git was not designed to take away your freedom to modify your commit history.
Re: Fossil Chat
#147Earlier quoted context omitted.
> not all lies are malicious The Fossil manual is pretty clear about calling it deceit. “By discarding parentage information, rebase attempts to deceive the reader about how the code actually came together.” > where I’m from “rewriting history” is lying... What history? Rebase is normally used before push. Rebase is used before it’s “history” to someone other than yourself.
In the event it's done before pushing, it's still lying, albeit to yourself—it is falsifying the record of what actually happened. The clearest way of conveying this is with the word "lying." Perhaps "falsifying" or even "manipulating" would also appropriately convey this fact. And conveying facts accurately is arguing in good faith. Not to mention it is not only ever done while contained to the local checkout, in wh…
I don't even care that Fossil is attacking the competition, really. I am a huge fan of SQLite. I just wish this silly "lying" argument would go away. It does not put Fossil in a good light. It does not make a meaningful contribution to understanding version control workflows. It does not give git (or any other VCS) the benefit of the doubt or it's due credit in the context of it's own design decisions, even if those design decisions are inferior by today's standards or in Dr. Hipp's opinion. But, it's clear I didn't make any progress here, I'll just think about why I'm not being persuasive and try again later. This claim about lying would be just as "true" but even sillier applied to Perforce or Subversion or RCS or SCCS... think about it.
Re: Fossil Chat
#148Does anyone use Fossil? I'm considering it for my personal projects. I like all it offers for the relatively low resource usage. The only use of it I've seen in the wild is Ripcord ( https://dev.cancel.fm/issues ), which is interestingly also relatively low resource usage compared to its competitor.
Daily, across a half dozen odd repos, and it greatly simplified my life since switching from Git. My primary wish is to have the forum compatible with email. And the next would be a partial commit option akin to 'git commit -p' although I think this is missed more than it was ever used. At first, I thought the chat was an odd addition but it's being used daily on all repos, and has really improved team cohesion and productivity. The ability to view documentation changes in the browser while still in the local checkout but not yet committed has also proved quite valuable. Having the repository contained in one file is handy, and frequenting one server for all dev related work is a huge bonus. It's unbelievably easy to setup, and the command line syntax and help is highly intuitive and simple, making transition a breeze and continued use a joy. It's a great piece of software for any team working on your typically-sized repo.
Re: Fossil Chat
#149Earlier quoted context omitted.
I guess you’re referring to me, and I guess it’s fair. It has nothing to do with git though, I’m triggered when it comes to arguments that I feel like aren’t being made in good faith. Serious question though: what do you do in Mercurial, or Fossil, when someone accidentally checks in SSH keys? I’ve watched this happen in companies multiples times.
You shun the secrets-leaking commit: https://fossil-scm.org/home/doc/trunk/www/shunning.wiki
So... there's both shun and scrub in Fossil, which lie about project history? Or is is not accurate to call it lying in this case?
Re: Fossil Chat
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
But have you tried Fossil to see if it does meet your way superior standard? Unless you're working on Linux kernel- or BSD-sized repositories, Fossil is arguably a better fit than Git. You don't need to customise anything out of the box—it's literally a single binary anywhere on your path and you have your version control, bug tracking, wiki, forum, chat, technotes, etc. in-house. Your team won't need to visit but on…
Pretty much everyone already uses git and some kind of issue tracker so the question is more if it's so much better to justify learning a new thing, not if it is slightly better in the abstract. It is not immediately obvious to me that bundling all these things into one tool is going to give better results, especially when you have non-developer users in the mix.