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Gnome 40

forty.gnome.org

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Re: Gnome 40

#211

Post by 6E3C517C »

locke78 wrote: post #204
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is FOSS. If this was a critical issue that blocked people from using the software, or aggravated a developer enough Ah, there it is. It hasn't aggravated a developer enough, so it is a non-issue. And people wonder why the Linux Desktop is unpopular.

That's the way it is when you depend on volunteers, they work on things when they feel like it. A solution would be to pay for a company-supported distro. Some were mentioned in other comments here.

> a company-supported distro

Oh, you mean like the one from Red Hat?

Re: Gnome 40

#213

Post by e_proxus »

gh-throw wrote: post #170
hallarempt wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, given that that's what macOS Big Sur has done, it's a dead cert. You no longer get a file picker dialog by default when saving, but a place where you can type a name and a label that says where saving will happen.

Where do you see that? I tried hitting cmd+s in Safari, Terminal, and Pages and got a normal macOS file-save dialog in all three cases. Looks more or less the same as it has for quite a while. I haven't touched anything related to file save settings (I probably should, as I'd like the arrow-down-to-browse-files to always be expanded, and I know there's a setting for that somewhere, just haven't bothered to yet).

I think they complain about the fact that the file dialog is collapsed by default, going to some length to hide the browse functionality (Apple probably wants you to save everything in Documents and be done with it).

The save dialog can be expanded by default by tweaking it though: https://github.com/mathiasbynens/dotfiles/blob/master/.macos...

Re: Gnome 40

#214

Post by kasabali »

jeroenhd wrote: post #152
SamuelAdams wrote: post #136

Can they add a toggle that switches between these "fat" top window bars and "skinny" top window bars? Basically strip out about 90% of the extra padding from buttons and bars and compress the UI down to what OS 10.6/7/8 use. Otherwise I always have to tack on a theme just to fix this one issue. Realistically, how many people are using Gnome on touch screen displays? Personally I always use it on a laptop so 90% of th…

Gnome and GTK are heavily opinionated towards client side decorations. That means the fat borders are part of the application, not necessarily of the desktop manager. You can make your own themes pretty easily though, if you want to change the theme. There's some quite-good-but-not-quite-there macOS themes that aren't too bad, especially with the top menu bars that Ubuntu used to have.

Client side decorations doesn't necessitate having gigantic buttons with swath of padding.

Re: Gnome 40

#215

Post by jeroenhd »

kasabali wrote: post #214
jeroenhd wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gnome and GTK are heavily opinionated towards client side decorations. That means the fat borders are part of the application, not necessarily of the desktop manager. You can make your own themes pretty easily though, if you want to change the theme. There's some quite-good-but-not-quite-there macOS themes that aren't too bad, especially with the top menu bars that Ubuntu used to have.

Client side decorations doesn't necessitate having gigantic buttons with swath of padding.

You're right, but in practice this means that the gigantic buttons are part of the application, not part of the desktop manager itself. Even if Gnome 40 tried to remove the touch-friendly buttons, it'd be up to the applications themselves to actually make the interface work like that.

The buttons and styles are a choice by the developers of the applications. Often, they follow the Gnome design language (which is good, because that's how most of the Gnome ecosystem delivers a unified experience), but very often they also make their own decisions about where the buttons go and what size they are. It's possible to change a lot of this with custom themes, but changing the size of components often breaks applications or layout because the developer did not intend the size to be changed.

I personally enjoy the look and feel of Gnome and I don't have any problems with the UI, but in the end my experience is dictated by the people behind the application. There are plenty of application on my system that don't follow the design language of my desktop environment, and if the Gnome design team redesigns their preferred UI, applications will have a mishmash of styles for at least a few years until things have stabilized.

Had the decorations been server side, then all that needed to happen was a quick change to the theme and maybe to the rendering components and the theme would've switched.

Re: Gnome 40

#216

Post by fao_ »

nine_k wrote: post #171
acqq wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And now everybody should look for a text from 2003 written by jwz mentioning the "Cascade of Attention-Deficit Teenagers model" and slowly read it again, then think how much time passed since.

Most Gnome developers, I suppose, are on RedHat payroll and are not teenage. They are busy working on various things, this is certain, and these things are apparently more important for them. Like, well, GTK4. I suppose most Red Hat customers are corporate, and when they ask for featureful Linux desktop, they likely mean playing nice with corporate systems. This is why Evince is such a good PDF viewer, compared to a…

> Most Gnome developers, I suppose, are on RedHat payroll and are not teenage.

jwz was not talking about the age, he was talking about the issue of ignoring bugs to the point where they reach decades old, and often even then persist and go unfixed. Some bugs live multiple decades, across three different issue trackers, having to be reopened each time.

The fun fact is that he wrote this in 2003, about the GNOME developers. Not much has changed in 20 years, it seems.

https://www.jwz.org/doc/cadt.html

Re: Gnome 40

#217

Post by bjourne »

nerdponx wrote: post #76
superkuh wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. I actually went to GNOME's IRC network the other day to talk to them about gtkfilechooser's multiple problems. Yours, and then the lack of text input for typing or pasting file paths. https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues/938 . They said they have no one assigned to gtkfilechooser bugs and none will be addressed. I was able to download the debian source for a couple gtk applications (ie, gedit/pluma) and ap…

Purely out of curiosity, what else is the Gtk team currently working on? People have been complaining about the file chooser for years. I'd be willing to donate a good chunk of money just to support "basic UX" improvements to FOSS software and toolkits like Gtk. Should we start a "Fix the Gtk file chooser" Gofundme?

Fixing the GtkFileChooser is not the main problem, it is getting your patches merged. Someone from the Gtk team needs to review them and put their stamp of approval on them. But the Gtk team are RedHat employees and they prioritize whatever the company wants them to prioritize. And if the company doesn't want them to prioritize the GtkFileChooser, your patches will languish on their bug tracker. If you are lucky, you'll get a message two years after you uploaded them asking you to rebase them to HEAD because the code base has changed to much that your patches can't be merged without them being significantly reworked.

Re: Gnome 40

#218

Post by craftoman »

oshanz wrote: post #105

GNOME has no thumbnails in the file picker https://jayfax.neocities.org/mediocrity/gnome-has-no-thumbna...

This is due to a missing package. Some distributions are not well structured and removing one package may lead to these errors.

Re: Gnome 40

#219

Post by abenga »

tasuki wrote: post #143
christophilus wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess that's why we have options. I like Gnome. It's by far my favorite DE. I don't want my screen cluttered up with stuff. I know what I've got running, and finding anything is really easy: Super + type whatever I'm thinking, and presto, it's there.

> Super + type whatever I'm thinking, and presto, it's there. I often have several windows of the same application open at the same time (particularly browser and terminal). When I want to switch from say the IDE to the _right_ browser window, how do I do that in Gnome? (I use Workspace Matrix[0] as I'm a visual type, and that works for me, but perhaps there's a better way?)

Alt+` (key above tab on most keyboards) should allow you to switch between windows of the same application. So you do alt+tab till you get to your browser, then alt+` to pick the right browser window.

Re: Gnome 40

#220

Post by abenga »

vfclists wrote: post #185

When will this be fixed - https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=679658#c10 ?

Right on there it says it's closed as WONTFIX, so you're not asking this in good faith. If it's a dealbreaker, I guess you have your answer.
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