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“I am announcing my resignation from the FSF board”

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Re: “I am announcing my resignation from the FSF board”

#51

Post by caeril »

bondarchuk wrote: post #34
ip34162 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FOSS doesn't depend on the FSF Board. There are many in the FOSS community that want RMS removed. https://guix.gnu.org/blog/2019/joint-statement-on-the-gnu-pr... https://sfconservancy.org/blog/2021/mar/23/outreachy-fsf/ https://rms-open-letter.github.io/ . . Also the FSF members weren't made aware of RMS's comeback. That's shitty behaviour. https://twitter.com/fsf/status/1374399897558917128 . . Partial reasons as to…

I don't believe those are the actual underlying reasons. This kind of smear campaign is just a means to an end. RMS is anti-corporate and pro end-user. Free software has turned out to be immensely useful for big corporations, but mostly because it's free, not because it empowers the end-user. You would expect leftists to be in favour of empowering the end-user, but evidently not. I think it's because RMS is an old-st…

After seeing every single member of the Fortune 500 shill for BLM last summer, this analysis rings true. Corporate power doesn't care about black lives, as several of the most adamant BLM shills run business models predicated significantly on black lives dying in cobalt mines and/or the associated sectarian wars over resources, or on busting unions of largely African immigrant labor.

Similarly, it's laughable to think that the FOSS community members who work for Apple, IBM, Amazon, Google, or anyone else on that list would give a single shit about some socially-inept guy making awkward passes at women while they quietly endorse whatever China feels like doing to the Uyghurs or Hong Kong dissidents, and quietly cover up the endless sexual harassment scandals of their own C-suites.

It's never been about social justice. Social Justice is a convenient tool they've found to further entrench their naked power. Don't think for half a second that they wouldn't immediately ditch it to support Hitler Part Deux if their internal strategy analysis indicated that doing so would gain them more power, control, and profits.

Re: “I am announcing my resignation from the FSF board”

#52

Post by roenxi »

threatofrain wrote: post #44
roenxi wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagreeable people have done amazing things for the Free Software movement. It is, at heart, a highly intolerant movement. It does not care about compromise, it cares about principles. It does not tolerate half-hearted attempts and lip service. Compromise and bringing people together is the slow track to becoming subservient to corporate interests. Mozilla works with people and we end up with an OK browser that is s…

Brave's main distinction is the cryptocurrency thing... as a browser it doesn't offer an interesting difference over the competition for privacy. And as privacy is a cat and mouse game, I'm not sure that Brave has developed the reputation that they get an edge on this problem over Apple or Mozilla. After that I'm not sure what it's offering. What is the eye opening factor here? In what ways has Brave really taken lea…

That is a bit like saying the iPhone is just a Blackberry with a touchscreen. Change doesn't have to be all that big to be important. The "cryptocurrency thing" is enough.

Brave is attempting to bring about a vision where the user has direct access to the advertising ecosystem. That is offering users a slice of advertising revenue. That is significant. And it is a level of radical that Mozilla/Firefox simply isn't showing.

They are basically acting like the internet is done, Chrome figured it out and they just have to provide the same again but with a different rendering engine and some configuration tweaks. Acceptable, but uninspiring and sort-of pointless. Anyone who cares about having a good web browser jumped ship to Chrome.

Re: “I am announcing my resignation from the FSF board”

#53

Post by inopinatus »

m000 wrote: post #45
inopinatus wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This false dichotomy is equally toxic. Leadership always means bringing people together, not imposing one or other set of idiosyncrasies.

Roman emperors brought people together by throwing other people to the lions. So I'd guess throwing RMS to the mob would also count as good leadership?

There's a reason that period is referred to as "decline and fall", and use of histrionic language such as "throwing to the mob" is exemplary of the idiocy surrounding this topic.

People with behavioural disorders need neither be forgiven their transgressions, nor publicly berated in some infantile display of tyranny, but may/should instead be quietly levered out. Competent managers have been doing so for aeons, including with high profile folks displaying problematic habits, like RMS.

Re: “I am announcing my resignation from the FSF board”

#54

Post by 12ian34 »

to all the Stallman supporters - sure he's a genius and sure, he created the FSF, but how can you advocate for someone to be in a very public leadership position, anywhere when they hold and publicise such deplorable and potentially harmful views on topics such as rape, misogyny and paedophilia? This isn't about freedom of speech, this is about avoiding setting a public example that these things are ok, which they absolutely are not.

Re: “I am announcing my resignation from the FSF board”

#55

Post by buisi »

rich_sasha wrote: post #31

I don’t know much more than superficial things about either FSF or RMS. I read the things he said, they sound reasonable, but very prone to misinterpretation. I won’t jump to his defence, I think not offending people even through their misunderstandings is a key skill in public speech. I do find it terrifying though how he is lynched for what is essentially rational and permissible speech in an ugly wrapper. I don’t…

I don't really think he is as "irredeemable" as people make him out to be. He could rebrand like Linus, and do less of the things which appear to irritate people. He could run more controversial things through someone else before publishing it.

They've already made their point that what he said / did wasn't acceptable two years ago.

Re: “I am announcing my resignation from the FSF board”

#56

Post by jeegsy »

ip34162 wrote: post #10
bondarchuk wrote: post #2

https://www.zdnet.com/article/return-of-stallman-to-fsf-spar... > Kat Walsh, a FSF board member and technology attorney tweeted, "for whatever it's worth, I did not support the decision to reinstate RMS. I made my arguments and placed my opposing vote; while I was glad I was able to do that I regret not being able to turn the decision the other way." I wonder what the next step will be in the corporate takeover of fr…

FOSS doesn't depend on the FSF Board. There are many in the FOSS community that want RMS removed. https://guix.gnu.org/blog/2019/joint-statement-on-the-gnu-pr... https://sfconservancy.org/blog/2021/mar/23/outreachy-fsf/ https://rms-open-letter.github.io/ . . Also the FSF members weren't made aware of RMS's comeback. That's shitty behaviour. https://twitter.com/fsf/status/1374399897558917128 . . Partial reasons as to…

Consensus is difficult to assess or believe when the price of dissent is so very high.

Re: “I am announcing my resignation from the FSF board”

#57

Post by threatofrain »

roenxi wrote: post #52
threatofrain wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brave's main distinction is the cryptocurrency thing... as a browser it doesn't offer an interesting difference over the competition for privacy. And as privacy is a cat and mouse game, I'm not sure that Brave has developed the reputation that they get an edge on this problem over Apple or Mozilla. After that I'm not sure what it's offering. What is the eye opening factor here? In what ways has Brave really taken lea…

That is a bit like saying the iPhone is just a Blackberry with a touchscreen. Change doesn't have to be all that big to be important. The "cryptocurrency thing" is enough. Brave is attempting to bring about a vision where the user has direct access to the advertising ecosystem. That is offering users a slice of advertising revenue. That is significant. And it is a level of radical that Mozilla/Firefox simply isn't sh…

Brave has been around since 2015. When the iPhone came out it exploded like wildfire, and the year after came the iPhone 3G, followed by the iPhone 3GS.

And if any of the major browser vendors did the same thing Brave did, it would be a scandal. In that way, Brave's innovation must be that they can fly under the radar.

Re: “I am announcing my resignation from the FSF board”

#58

Post by danielrpa »

cehrlich wrote: post #9
adenozine wrote: post #3

Good riddance? I'm tired of social culture spokespeople flogging technologists over the head Nobody can make a case that RMS is a swell guy, he's awful. Still, he's without a sliver of a doubt the single most influential activist for FOSS that there's ever been. Getting rid of polarization happens with one instance of forgiveness+rehabilitation at a time. You cant cancel your way to better culture.

RMS's role in the FSF was president, and now Member of the Board of Directors. Sure this requires some technical skills, but the main factor is leadership and the ability to bring people together. If anyone believes that RMS is fit for that role, that says a lot about the state of FOSS.

There are many ways in which someone can be a lead. I'm pretty sure there are plenty of people at FSF able to build relationships and advise on managing people. We don't need every single person on the board to have the same profile.

RMS is a symbol and an ideological leader, traits which are very important for the role and likely much more valuable to the FSF than this person who just left (whom I've never heard of before).

Re: “I am announcing my resignation from the FSF board”

#59

Post by [deleted] »

phkahler wrote: post #18
cehrlich wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RMS's role in the FSF was president, and now Member of the Board of Directors. Sure this requires some technical skills, but the main factor is leadership and the ability to bring people together. If anyone believes that RMS is fit for that role, that says a lot about the state of FOSS.

RMS wrote the original GPL and founded the FSF on his own. He difined a movement, and its principles. I call that leadership. More power to him.

[deleted]

Re: “I am announcing my resignation from the FSF board”

#60

Post by roenxi »

threatofrain wrote: post #57
roenxi wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a bit like saying the iPhone is just a Blackberry with a touchscreen. Change doesn't have to be all that big to be important. The "cryptocurrency thing" is enough. Brave is attempting to bring about a vision where the user has direct access to the advertising ecosystem. That is offering users a slice of advertising revenue. That is significant. And it is a level of radical that Mozilla/Firefox simply isn't sh…

Brave has been around since 2015. When the iPhone came out it exploded like wildfire, and the year after came the iPhone 3G, followed by the iPhone 3GS. And if any of the major browser vendors did the same thing Brave did, it would be a scandal. In that way, Brave's innovation must be that they can fly under the radar.

> Steve Jobs said that when you hold up the iPhone, it's value should be obvious, and people will say they want it right away. And the ordinary customers on the ground saw the iPhone and it exploded instantly like wildfire, and then it redefined a new category of "smartphone", framing all other phones as "dumb".

Yeah, that is what I was pointing to. All that happened without the iPhone being all that different from what was on the market. Other phones made calls, other phones had software.

iPhone really just threw good design, an app store and no keyboard into the mix. We wouldn't know that was revolutionary, market upending levels of change except for being around to see the results.

Embedding crypto into the web browser is a big deal, even if you don't think much the idea. It has implications, it might change how money flows in the web which is quite drastic. It isn't obvious to me why you think the idea is a scandal but each to their own I say.

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