Nationwide tells 13,000 staff to 'work anywhere' • Hacker News Board

Re: Nationwide tells 13,000 staff to 'work anywhere'

#151

Post by prepend » Thu, Mar 25, 2021, 11:58 AM UTC

laurent92 wrote: post #112

kzzzznot wrote: post #31

I expect employers should offer an additional allowance for extra space to work in at home or (post lockdown) coffee shop/coworking space fees.

As an employer (given our revenue didn’t deflate), I’d be happy to do that, but the administrative hurdles is what annoys me. Laws of France says I can offer an allowance, but only if I gather every single receipt and do a pro-rata of, for example, the additional electric consumption caused by WFH. The administrative overhead of admitting a dozen invoices per employee of $7 each is probably around $7 each (their time…

> those who had the Aeron chair

I was always a “pay for your own telework stuff if you want to telework” kind of person, but after teleworking for a year in a crappy chair, I really wish my org would buy me decent office equipment. I took a chair and a desk for granted. And it seems like a good deal for orgs if employees all start buying their chairs and desks and whatnot.

Re: Nationwide tells 13,000 staff to 'work anywhere'

#152

Post by carmen_sandiego » Thu, Mar 25, 2021, 11:59 AM UTC

dx034 wrote: post #139

carmen_sandiego wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not talking about contractual probation periods. There's a universal two year threshold after which you get extra protections, and before which you can be fired for any reason that's not specifically discriminatory on race, gender, etc + some other very narrow cases. Pretty similar to what 'at will' means in the US. We just have a short statutory notice period. https://www.stephens-scown.co.uk/employment/employme…

From the link you posted: > Even though an employee has fewer employment rights in the first two years of their employment, an employer would be foolish to assume they have carte blanche to dismiss at will. So while it's true that there's less protection for workers, there is no at will employment in the UK. Probation period probably comes closest to it but is much shorter.

What are you talking about? The US doesn't give carte blanche either. Discrimination law exists. Other labor laws exist. Exactly as this article refers to as being 'not carte blanche' in the UK.

'At will' in the US and the 2 year qualifying period in the UK are practically identical, apart from that the UK has a 2-week statutory notice period. The protections that remain in both the US and UK are almost entirely about protected classes. Even the classes themselves are virtually the same.

"Have they been there less than 2 years?" is the first thing legal will ask you when you want to sack someone in the UK. It's a wholly different status to being protected after the period.

Re: Nationwide tells 13,000 staff to 'work anywhere'

#153

Post by marviel » Thu, Mar 25, 2021, 12:06 PM UTC

epage wrote: post #138

Jonnax wrote: post #30

This will be great for those smaller towns which have been suffering a drain to the cities for decades.

What are good small towns to work remote from? I consider "good to work remote from" to mean - High speed internet - Somewhat reasonable way to get to airport for office time (e.g. Michigan Flyer has bus service from East Landsing to the Detroit airport. Personal bonuses - Mountains, trees, and winter - Low cost of living

Chattanooga, TN, but don't tell too many people :)

Re: Nationwide tells 13,000 staff to 'work anywhere'

#154

Post by adamhp » Thu, Mar 25, 2021, 12:07 PM UTC

sn_master wrote: post #6

Hendrikto wrote: post #3

I really much appreciate this aspect of the pandemic. The "home office revolution" has long been possible, but still would not have happened for a long time without COVID.

People with friends and family can't gauge how bad of a toll this has taken on lonely single guys like me. For most of them WFH been a Godsend. I really wish this ends or at least there remains enough places which require working from the office.

There is too much investment into office real estate for it to vanish. I think once things are back to "normal", you'll easily be able to find a normal office job. I would expect the majority of people are more in your camp than the 100% remote camp.

Re: Nationwide tells 13,000 staff to 'work anywhere'

#155

Post by dbetteridge » Thu, Mar 25, 2021, 12:08 PM UTC

endymi0n wrote: post #145

dbetteridge wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To ask the pointed question, How do the employees you manage feel about the change? Because for me the concept of managers 'just walking around' gives me that itchy feeling on the back of my neck. And at the end of the day if the employees who write code/produce output are doing that efficiently that is the goal right.

Good one, actually most of my employees feel the same way. You might have a bad case of a micromanager there, but here‘s my definition: > Management by walking around emphasizes the importance of interpersonal contact, open appreciation, and recognition. It is one of the most important ways to build civility and performance in the workplace. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/318016170_Managing_... Your definit…

Fair enough then, sounds like your team would be happy with a balance of WFH/Office.

I thankfully no longer have to deal with micromanaging, but have in the past (hence the itchy neck feeling).

I should have specified happiness in there somewhere because I agree that the efficiency should come with happy team members.

In my case if theres something I need to make me happier as a team member I'll just ask, but I guess that isn't the case for everyone.

Re: Nationwide tells 13,000 staff to 'work anywhere'

#156

Post by adamhp » Thu, Mar 25, 2021, 12:15 PM UTC

scandox wrote: post #23

Flexibility sounds good but what I have seen over the last year is that all boundaries in terms of when and where work begins and ends are being eroded. This started accidentally but it is now being actively exploited on an unprecedented scale.

This might be a blessing in disguise. Hopefully it will force us to really examine our work culture, and begin to challenge this notion that 40+ hours a week of our lives should be devoted to work (unless of course, you're working that many hours voluntarily on something you love).

Re: Nationwide tells 13,000 staff to 'work anywhere'

#157

Post by BlargMcLarg » Thu, Mar 25, 2021, 12:15 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #146

pdimitar wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Optimizing your lifelong estate purchase for a style of life that won't always be there seems crazy to me. Why?! Because you get to buy a cheaper estate -- is that the main reason? But you will not always work 9-5. You actually get to retire one day. Also there are the occasional long vacations when everybody is at home. Etc. The elephant in the room: if you can't tolerate your partner in the same flat/house for long…

> Optimizing your lifelong estate purchase for a style of life that won't always be there seems crazy to me. Why?! Because you get to buy a cheaper estate -- is that the main reason? But you will not always work 9-5. You actually get to retire one day. Also there are the occasional long vacations when everybody is at home. Etc. For most 20-30yo, the 9-5 lifestyle is absolutely expected to be there for the next 30 yea…

>For most 20-30yo, the 9-5 lifestyle is absolutely expected to be there for the next 30 years.

I would be very careful making any claim going as far as the next 30 years, given what has happened in the last 2 years, let alone in the last century. If that wasn't enough to convince my fellow 20-30yos, nothing's going to shake them awake to how volatile life can be.

Re: Nationwide tells 13,000 staff to 'work anywhere'

#158

Post by adamhp » Thu, Mar 25, 2021, 12:18 PM UTC

dx034 wrote: post #141

disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Get a work phone/computer. Make it clear that you won't be available outside of business hours unless it's actually an emergency. My Dad resisted getting a mobile phone from his company from the mid eighties to the 2000's, on the principle that if they can't contact you, they'll figure it out themselves.

I wasn't talking about myself or really any senior person. But tell that to an intern or someone in their first job. And that's the problem with flexible working, it's often especially terrible for the most junior employees.

Not only that, but there's a great deal of privilege in being able to say "no". It is something the talented tech worker gets used to being able to do, because they have options elsewhere. They can design their employment because they have in-demand skills. But it doesn't necessarily mean everyone is comfortable with it or can afford to risk the consequences.

Re: Nationwide tells 13,000 staff to 'work anywhere'

#159

Post by adamhp » Thu, Mar 25, 2021, 12:19 PM UTC

aseerdbnarng wrote: post #120

I have two comments on this: a) I feel sympathy for the young, single-types who benefit most from working in a busy environment. The WFH change is wonderful for the older types a bit fed up with long-commutes and open plan offices. I hope the hybrid approach allows us to treat the office like an old-school marketday where once or twice a week, everyone is there and the goal is to be as social as possible. The softer…

For (a) can we do barbecues and cookouts and happy hours instead? We can bring whiteboards if needed but I really don't want to spend even 2 hours a week commuting again.

Re: Nationwide tells 13,000 staff to 'work anywhere'

#160

Post by UncleMeat » Thu, Mar 25, 2021, 12:22 PM UTC

dbetteridge wrote: post #105

endymi0n wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While there‘s truth to that, it doesn‘t bring home my own issue with WFH: It might be okay to much better for individual contributors, but it‘s harsh for me as a manager. Zoom (fatigue) meetings all day, staring at the screen instead of real people and any form of "managing by walking around" and watercooler chats are gone. This might not make a difference if my job was a corporate mess and sucked before already, but…

To ask the pointed question, How do the employees you manage feel about the change? Because for me the concept of managers 'just walking around' gives me that itchy feeling on the back of my neck. And at the end of the day if the employees who write code/produce output are doing that efficiently that is the goal right.

> And at the end of the day if the employees who write code/produce output are doing that efficiently that is the goal right.

That is the short term goal. But it isn't the only goal. I want my reports to trust me so that if things change or they are having problems that they'll be honest with me and provide feedback so I can make things better. I want my reports to feel valued and emotionally satisfied with their work. This means understanding their career goals and what makes them feel happy so I can make sure that they get the kinds of rewards that matter to them. These sorts of things are important for the long term sustainability of a team even if a team is delivering efficiently at a given moment.