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Mozilla, Tor Join Calls to Oust Richard Stallman from Free Software Foundation

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Re: Mozilla, Tor Join Calls to Oust Richard Stallman from Free Software Foundation

#211

Post by c0nducktr »

redis_mlc wrote: post #119

> Having a bed in his office at MIT is creepy as hell. My understanding is that he slept (ie. lived) in his office, so having a bed there would be normal, not "creepy as hell." Also, many professors have beds in their labs in case of long-running experiments. I've seen them and thought it was practical. I read all of the related links about Stallman and didn't see any actual evidence. What's odd about the US left is…

Are you insinuating that all Muslims support child marriage? Because it certainly seems like you are.

I'm a 'leftist', but also atheist, so I certainly don't support Islam. But I will tolerate people who believe in it. Same as I'll tolerate people who believe in Christianity, which has plenty of weird shit of its own.

Additionally, I'm opposed to the 'cancelling' of Richard Stallman. It's fucking stupid.

Maybe you should try to not paint all 'leftists' with this stupidly broad brush you're using.

Re: Mozilla, Tor Join Calls to Oust Richard Stallman from Free Software Foundation

#212

Post by redis_mlc »

c0nducktr wrote: post #211
redis_mlc wrote: post #119

> Having a bed in his office at MIT is creepy as hell. My understanding is that he slept (ie. lived) in his office, so having a bed there would be normal, not "creepy as hell." Also, many professors have beds in their labs in case of long-running experiments. I've seen them and thought it was practical. I read all of the related links about Stallman and didn't see any actual evidence. What's odd about the US left is…

Are you insinuating that all Muslims support child marriage? Because it certainly seems like you are. I'm a 'leftist', but also atheist, so I certainly don't support Islam. But I will tolerate people who believe in it. Same as I'll tolerate people who believe in Christianity, which has plenty of weird shit of its own. Additionally, I'm opposed to the 'cancelling' of Richard Stallman. It's fucking stupid. Maybe you sh…

> Are you insinuating that all Muslims support child marriage? Because it certainly seems like you are.

Yes I am. For a Muslim to not support what is in the Koran is apostasy, as the Koran is the perfect word according to them.

Mohammed married a 6 yo, and consummated the marriage at 9 yo. As the "perfect example of a man", Muslims today still copy that. When laws are passed against that, those lawmakers can expect a much-shortened lifespan.

You are part of the problem for commenting without knowing that.

Re: Mozilla, Tor Join Calls to Oust Richard Stallman from Free Software Foundation

#214

Post by cies »

0_gravitas wrote: post #154
cies wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

C'mon the petition does not link where he expressed his views. How can I go and read all the internet looking for the offensive material? Nah. I believe the people signing the petition know to some extend that this is serious. The petition respects him by not linking all expressions directly. Now it's up to him to defend himself if he likes. If he came around (like he came around before) that is a good defense in the…

This leaves me very dismayed, why is simply "a lot of people think it" enough to convince you something is true/right? I can think of a good many scenarios where that couldn't ever be non-destructive. This is what critical thinking is for!

I'm saying the opposite. I want to see his defense. That's my whole point.

And yes, that list of people is impressive. I know some of 'm and hold m in high regard. That does not say it's true, but it does make me believe there's actually something going on here -- although I dont any evidence presented. And nowadays even with links to "evidence": what do we truly know?

Hence the defense'd be my proof of the pudding.

Re: Mozilla, Tor Join Calls to Oust Richard Stallman from Free Software Foundation

#215

Post by cies »

asabjorn wrote: post #165
cies wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> complex woke activism To me this list of people and organizations are not some silly knights of "woke activism", they are people who'd feel misrepresented by RMS due to his beliefs. I'd not be so dismissive to that. We try to make software a more inclusive place. We being: people organizing conferences, the companies that create software and the FLOSS movement as well. Having someone in a position believing what he…

> To me this list of people and organizations are not some silly knights of "woke activism", they are people who'd feel misrepresented by RMS due to his beliefs. I'd not be so dismissive to that. We try to make software a more inclusive place. Several of these organizations engage in woke political D&I activism, e.g. Mozilla and GNOME. The woke sense of tolerance is to be intolerant to violations of its fundamentalis…

> most expect tolerance to be a two-way street

Are you aware of the tolerance paradox of Popper?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

> The woke sense of tolerance

I dont think adding this "woke" word helps making your point. Or, could you please define what you mean by it?

I'm intolerant of hate speech myself. I think organizations that represent people may hold even stricter "codes of conduct" in order to ensure a maximum of people feels represented/welcomed by the organization.

> this is another serious accusation.

I did not accuse him, I said I valued him coming around on this topic. It seems you want to paint me in a color no matter what I say. An why did I say this about the age of consent? Because here I actually did go and look for the evidence, and here he did come around. Good stuff, not bad stuff. I hope he can come around IFF he really hold the beliefs people signing the petition find intolerable. I hope for a defense, or a statement of coming around.

Re: Mozilla, Tor Join Calls to Oust Richard Stallman from Free Software Foundation

#216

Post by gitrog »

claudiawerner wrote: post #195
dragonwriter wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

'Cancel culture' is a thing - it's been the subject of academic scrutiny, even by left-leaning professors and academics on how it affects movements within the left. And you're right, it isn't a uniquely 'leftist' thing. But purity politics (whether the predecessor or the underlying philosophy of how 'cancel culture' operates - regardless of whether it's a 'thing' or not) and moral grandstanding are serious topics of…

I would love to read the academic material on "Cancel culture" being an objective thing. Would you point me to that?

Re: Mozilla, Tor Join Calls to Oust Richard Stallman from Free Software Foundation

#217

Post by nec4b »

jasonpeacock wrote: post #198
ipnon wrote: post #44

I believe there is a significant chilling effect in regards to speaking out in the defense of Richard Stallman, a man who has never been convicted of a crime, and who in response to the allegations in the open letter has said things such as: "We know that Giuffre was being coerced into sex – by Epstein. She was being harmed," "Through personal conversations in recent years, I've learned to understand how sex with a c…

What about all the women who have come forward, talking about what a massive creep he is? This isn't about some technicality about what he said, but a culmination of 30 years of horrible behavior. It takes trivial research (check Twitter) for the many personal accounts from women who will never get close to him, and have been driven from the industry by both him and the people who have protected him.

I recommend that you try with a swimming test first. Strip, bind and throw him in the water and if he stays afloat he is guilty, if he sinks to the bottom, you can still try the fire test next.

Re: Mozilla, Tor Join Calls to Oust Richard Stallman from Free Software Foundation

#218

Post by MauranKilom »

geofft wrote: post #179
MauranKilom wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> figure out when he's alienating people and figure out how to stop I read through the appendix in the open letter and find no discussion of this. If he did stop, would you agree that this entire letter was baseless?

I personally find the open letter a bit short on these sorts of details. I think better sources are these: http://ebb.org/bkuhn/blog/2019/10/15/fsf-rms.html (October 2019, by a former FSF board member and 2021 recipient of the FSF's Award for the Advancement of Free Software): > For the last two years, I had been a loud internal voice in the FSF leadership regarding RMS' Free-Software-unrelated public statements; I f…

Both of these are relevant to his removal back then, but how are they relevant now?

> assure the best outcome for the FSF, which IMO didn't include having a leader who made such statements.

Ok, he's no longer leading the FSF and the recent development does not aim to change that. Why is this (reasonable-at-the-time, imo) opinion relevant now?

> I've reached the conclusion that it's not that he's unable to understand, he's just unwilling to change his mind.

Did he change his mind now? Has he repented? Atoned? The 2019 pieces are not going to take this into account.

Re: Mozilla, Tor Join Calls to Oust Richard Stallman from Free Software Foundation

#219

Post by threatofrain »

natmaka wrote: post #173
threatofrain wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see cancel culture as used by the political party who likely does not recognize banning abortion clinics by law through an entire state as cancellation. The stakes aren’t a matter of Twitter hates you. Your boss firing you doesn’t mean your doctor is banned from giving you an abortion. Or when TX sought to enforce a ban on gay sex in 2003, I really doubt the GOP sees that as cancellation. It’s a kind of failure to…

The very fact that the GOP is also guilty of the cancellations you exposed doesn't preclude anyone, including the GOP, to complain about other forms of cancellation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

According to the GOP, these aren't cancellations, but matters of spiritual and moral clarity.

Before one rushes to the aid of those who are powerful, one might first observe those who live underfoot. It is reasonable to say that in the lifetime of your children, it will still be a Constitutional right for Christian businesses and employees to deny gay employees or customers.

Re: Mozilla, Tor Join Calls to Oust Richard Stallman from Free Software Foundation

#220

Post by shock »

jasonpeacock wrote: post #198
ipnon wrote: post #44

I believe there is a significant chilling effect in regards to speaking out in the defense of Richard Stallman, a man who has never been convicted of a crime, and who in response to the allegations in the open letter has said things such as: "We know that Giuffre was being coerced into sex – by Epstein. She was being harmed," "Through personal conversations in recent years, I've learned to understand how sex with a c…

What about all the women who have come forward, talking about what a massive creep he is? This isn't about some technicality about what he said, but a culmination of 30 years of horrible behavior. It takes trivial research (check Twitter) for the many personal accounts from women who will never get close to him, and have been driven from the industry by both him and the people who have protected him.

What are the criteria for being a "massive creep"? Future board members, start taking notes!
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