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Fire Destroys 300mm Line of Renesas’ Naka Factory

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Re: Fire Destroys 300mm Line of Renesas’ Naka Factory

#91
post #74
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You read it here: https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Tech/Semiconductors/Chip-st... Some more details on the NXP texas fuckup: https://outline.com/rfBWzn

> because the facilities were completely shut down, clean rooms were flooded with particles and every piece of equipment was contaminated Ouch. That suggests that they didn't have backup power for the positive pressure ventilation system. I hope adding that is on someone's todo list for next time.

[deleted]

Re: Fire Destroys 300mm Line of Renesas’ Naka Factory

#92
post #74
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You read it here: https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Tech/Semiconductors/Chip-st... Some more details on the NXP texas fuckup: https://outline.com/rfBWzn

> because the facilities were completely shut down, clean rooms were flooded with particles and every piece of equipment was contaminated Ouch. That suggests that they didn't have backup power for the positive pressure ventilation system. I hope adding that is on someone's todo list for next time.

Even if they had backup power for those kinds of systems, the cold in Texas took down utility-grade generation capacity. It wouldn't be a surprise if they had their backups die, too.

Re: Fire Destroys 300mm Line of Renesas’ Naka Factory

#93

This is horrible. What keeps me up at night is thinking about TSMC. One company. Just needs an earth quake, fire, explosion, something and the whole world is crippled. I know we have samsung, intel, etc other fabs. But if TSMC ever went down it would make the thailand floods for hard drives look like a joke.

wait till china annexes taiwan and america just watches

Re: Fire Destroys 300mm Line of Renesas’ Naka Factory

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of those companies have any expertise in running a semiconductor fab, though. There probably is low-hanging fruit, but you have to be really familiar with the process to know where it might be.

No, you don't. That's what makes it low-hanging fruit. -- Signed, someone who is really familiar with the process.

When I worked in the semiconductor industry, it turned out that the same set of people often worked for multiple different vendors as contractors and consultants, setting up lines and troubleshooting process problems, etc. So presumably you need to tap into those people.

Re: Fire Destroys 300mm Line of Renesas’ Naka Factory

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can sleep a _little_ better: the narrative around this ended up being focused around TSMC, but it's simply because that's the most visible part of the chain, they're first to a new node and all the newest gadgets need the newest node, so all the newest gadgets are on TSMC. They're not solely responsible for like 90% of chips or anything.

Especially in the automotive sector which is mostly using relatively ancient processes.

New Tesla Model S is rumored [1] to use latest AMD Ryzen chipset. Even Model 3 and Model Y are using 14nm Intel Gordon Peak chips.

[1] https://wccftech.com/amd-navi-23-rdna-2-gpu-reportedly-power...

Re: Fire Destroys 300mm Line of Renesas’ Naka Factory

#96
post #56
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since cars generally have a large physical space for chips and ample power, why don't automakers just use chips from older fabs?

Redesign, and re-certify a car selling at less than 10% markup. You will be underwater for the car's entire remaining lifetime on the market.

I meant as part of the original design, not as a stop-gap until the fabs are outputting enough chips.

Re: Fire Destroys 300mm Line of Renesas’ Naka Factory

#97

This is horrible. What keeps me up at night is thinking about TSMC. One company. Just needs an earth quake, fire, explosion, something and the whole world is crippled. I know we have samsung, intel, etc other fabs. But if TSMC ever went down it would make the thailand floods for hard drives look like a joke.

We really need to localize manufacturing of fabs. Even if the tech is making something closer to more primitive forms of computing from 30+ years ago. A lot can be done on those chips with well written software.

Unfortunately just trying to manufacture a transistor is extremely difficult and dangerous.

I wonder if there's something more accessible that could help localize circuit logic as a primitive building block of computation - one that isn't worried about being the fastest thing but the most accessible. If not targeted per individual then per a big neighborhood/small town.

Re: Fire Destroys 300mm Line of Renesas’ Naka Factory

#98

This is horrible. What keeps me up at night is thinking about TSMC. One company. Just needs an earth quake, fire, explosion, something and the whole world is crippled. I know we have samsung, intel, etc other fabs. But if TSMC ever went down it would make the thailand floods for hard drives look like a joke.

Taiwan is currently having a drought. Water supply to TSMC has been limited. TSMC scrambling to secure enough water. Fabs are chemical plants that require lots of water. TSMC Signs Deal For More Than 100 Water Tankers As Taiwan Drought Expected To Worsen https://wccftech.com/tsmc-signs-deal-for-more-than-100-water...

Reminded me of the 2011 Thai floods that had a huge impact on HDD prices.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-thai-floods-drives/thai-f...

Re: Fire Destroys 300mm Line of Renesas’ Naka Factory

#99
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having worked in the semiconductor industry, it would be good investment for Apple, Google, or Microsoft to get into fabbing stuff for themselves and others just on the basis of being able to outcompete everyone else in operational efficiency. There's a killing to be made from low-hanging fruit all over the place, at least for anyone who's able to front costs of opening or acquiring a billion dollar fab.

> it would be good investment for Apple, Google, or Microsoft to get into fabbing stuff for themselves and others just on the basis of being able to outcompete everyone else in operational efficiency. They can try... Surely they have cash, and so did the Chinese who were signing 10 digit cheques for anybody claiming to be able to setup a modern fab. Running a fab is not like running a cat video website, or making a c…

I don't understand what most of this post has to do with the second part.

> Early silicon valley businesses would've given a heart attack to any modern politically correct business exec. Stuff like this was rather common:

Ads like that... seem fairly mild?

I mean this "engage the out of your users" billboard seems more offensive: https://www.adstasher.com/2017/05/funny-new-emojis-billboard...

> Just read some memories of Fairchild Semi "alums." Stories of men from semiconductor companies stealing each other's wives in the most literal sense, gallons of expensive liquors, contraband Cuban cigars, break-ins into labs, and fisticuffs at business meetings were the world of the valley back then

Err..

I don't think you've ever been out with sales execs from SV companies. "gallons of expensive liquors" sounds like an average Friday night.

> contraband Cuban cigars

Of course no one in SV these days does any contraband drugs./s

Re: Fire Destroys 300mm Line of Renesas’ Naka Factory

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might even be a good investment to build a fab just to clean up in the event of a shortage. Kind of like how if anyone in Texas had the good foresight to winterize they could have made a year of profit in a few days...

> if anyone in Texas had the good foresight to winterize they could have made a year of profit in a few days Price gouging laws generally discourage this business model.

It didn't stop the wholesale power distributers in Texas last winter. What was it? $9/kWh? For several days.
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