That was quite informative. I speak Italian fluently, but had never heard such a good explanation of why you have un uovo, but le uova.
The Decline and Fall of the Latin Neuter
51–60 of 136 posts
Re: The Decline and Fall of the Latin Neuter
#52>The neuter gender is very old indeed, arguably older than the other two genders. Through the systematic comparison of ancient languages, we believe that Proto-Indo-European, in its oldest reconstructable state, had only two gender-like categories for its nouns: animate and inanimate (that is, for moving and not-moving things). It was the inanimate that became the neuter gender in its descendant languages, while the…
The grammatical gender of nouns is mostly arbitrary. A famous example is "key", which is feminine in Italian and Spanish but masculine in German. This is also the case in Latin with its neuter. My Latin is very rusty, but IIRC from high school, there are a lot of nouns that refer to "neuter" things, but are actually masculine or feminine, for example "vis" (= strength) is feminine.
German will raise you the grammatically neuter “Mädchen”, meaning girl or maiden.
Re: The Decline and Fall of the Latin Neuter
#53>The neuter gender is very old indeed, arguably older than the other two genders. Through the systematic comparison of ancient languages, we believe that Proto-Indo-European, in its oldest reconstructable state, had only two gender-like categories for its nouns: animate and inanimate (that is, for moving and not-moving things). It was the inanimate that became the neuter gender in its descendant languages, while the…
You may be interested to know that other languages do distinguish animacy/inanimacy:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animacy
It isn’t always equivalent to gender though.
Re: The Decline and Fall of the Latin Neuter
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
The grammatical gender of nouns is mostly arbitrary. A famous example is "key", which is feminine in Italian and Spanish but masculine in German. This is also the case in Latin with its neuter. My Latin is very rusty, but IIRC from high school, there are a lot of nouns that refer to "neuter" things, but are actually masculine or feminine, for example "vis" (= strength) is feminine.
“mostly arbitrary” I’ll say: el clítoris.
C'mon, we all know it's an introverted dick.
Re: The Decline and Fall of the Latin Neuter
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
The grammatical gender of nouns is mostly arbitrary. A famous example is "key", which is feminine in Italian and Spanish but masculine in German. This is also the case in Latin with its neuter. My Latin is very rusty, but IIRC from high school, there are a lot of nouns that refer to "neuter" things, but are actually masculine or feminine, for example "vis" (= strength) is feminine.
“mostly arbitrary” I’ll say: el clítoris.
Latin has mentula and verpa, both feminine words referring to a male appendage.
Re: The Decline and Fall of the Latin Neuter
#56English native speaker here (en_GB!) However, I have studied Latin, both classical: "Cicero sic in omnibus, Brutus aderat." and medieval: Erasmus, as he toddled around Europe, drank nearly as much red wine as I do. I've also failed French and German O levels (old UK exam at age 15.) So, Latin generally had M, F and N. Modern French (Romance language du jour) ostensibly has M and F. Modern Germanic languages have ....…
Dutch in colloquial language, masculine and feminine are merged to the common gender Danish and Swedish are both common/neuter Norwegian depends on the dialect. The dialects with more Danish influence may drop the feminine (or they may use masculine adjectives/determiners with feminine nouns), but certain words will still more commonly be used with feminine determiners, even if it might be OK to use masculine. E.g.,…
Bornholmish retains three genders, in contrast to standard Danish.
Re: The Decline and Fall of the Latin Neuter
#57Surprised the article didn't mention the Spanish definite article lo , which can be paired with a masculine adjective to form a nominal phrase meaning the abstract notion of the adjective: lo mismo - the same [thing], lo bueno - the good, that which is good. My understanding is this derives from the Latin neuter as well. Edit: why on earth is this being downvoted? Seriously confused - is something here wrong or contr…
You can see the same thing in Russian and other slavic languages, for example, where you can use "-о" to convert an adjective into concept noun (of always neuter gender). For example, "добрый" (masculine adjective "good)" => "добро" (neuter noun "the good").
Re: The Decline and Fall of the Latin Neuter
#58Surprised the article didn't mention the Spanish definite article lo , which can be paired with a masculine adjective to form a nominal phrase meaning the abstract notion of the adjective: lo mismo - the same [thing], lo bueno - the good, that which is good. My understanding is this derives from the Latin neuter as well. Edit: why on earth is this being downvoted? Seriously confused - is something here wrong or contr…
You can see the same thing in Russian and other slavic languages, for example, where you can use "-о" to convert an adjective into concept noun (of always neuter gender). For example, "добрый" (masculine adjective "good)" => "добро" (neuter noun "the good").
What would those sound like phonetically for those of us that can't read cryllic?
Re: The Decline and Fall of the Latin Neuter
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
“mostly arbitrary” I’ll say: el clítoris.
Latin has mentula and verpa, both feminine words referring to a male appendage.
Giacomo Cassanova had a bit on this:
“When asked by an English poet who was at the table to read the ancient couplet Discite grammatici cur mascula nomina cunnus/ Et cur femineum mentula nomen habet [Teach us, grammarians, why vagina (cunnus) is a masculine noun/ And why penis (mentula) is feminine], Giacomo answered it with a witty pentameter of his own invention: Disce quod a domino nomina servus habet [It is because the slave always takes the name of his master].”
Re: The Decline and Fall of the Latin Neuter
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can't down-vote, so I don't know. But what's the significance of that example? It's one instance of many remnants of the Latin neuter in modern languages.
Yeah okay, so I guess it's of zero interest to anybody who clicked on an article about the Latin neuter. Thanks for the feedback.
This one deserves the downvotes.