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Mozilla, Tor Join Calls to Oust Richard Stallman from Free Software Foundation

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Re: Mozilla, Tor Join Calls to Oust Richard Stallman from Free Software Foundation

#191

Post by salawat »

geofft wrote: post #179
MauranKilom wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> figure out when he's alienating people and figure out how to stop I read through the appendix in the open letter and find no discussion of this. If he did stop, would you agree that this entire letter was baseless?

I personally find the open letter a bit short on these sorts of details. I think better sources are these: http://ebb.org/bkuhn/blog/2019/10/15/fsf-rms.html (October 2019, by a former FSF board member and 2021 recipient of the FSF's Award for the Advancement of Free Software): > For the last two years, I had been a loud internal voice in the FSF leadership regarding RMS' Free-Software-unrelated public statements; I f…

>For the last two years, I had been a loud internal voice in the FSF leadership regarding RMS' Free-Software-unrelated public statements; I felt strongly that it was in the best interest of the FSF to actively seek to limit such statements, and that it was my duty to FSF to speak out about this within the organization. [...]

Read: I felt it was in the Foundation's best interest's to deprive Richard Stallman of his inalienable right to free speech. I also felt it was my duty to try to get the organization to agree with me on the virtue of censoring Richard Stallman.

>I've spent a lot of time working with him to help him understand why various positions he holds are harmful. I've reached the conclusion that it's not that he's unable to understand, he's just unwilling to change his mind.

Read: I've argued my case, but the case I made was not sufficient for Richard Stallman to decide to change his viewpoint on the matter.

Note all of these are written in such a way to put the most uncharitable spin on Richard, and the most charitable spin on the writer.

Russell's conjugation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotive_conjugation

Critical thinking is important.

Re: Mozilla, Tor Join Calls to Oust Richard Stallman from Free Software Foundation

#192

Post by anthk »

shock wrote: post #101
orra wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sexual Harassment can mean anything to these usurpers. This is a complete strawman. Sexual harassment is well defined. It would be unwanted and, especially, persistent sexual attention.

> Sexual harassment is well defined. It would be unwanted and, especially, persistent sexual attention. Don't go to latin america or you'd be in for a surprise. Or Japan.

In Spain on weekends it can be in both ways and with different sexual orientations.

Re: Mozilla, Tor Join Calls to Oust Richard Stallman from Free Software Foundation

#193

Post by claudiawerner »

throw0101a wrote: post #133
mark_l_watson wrote: post #30

As a very liberal person, I have to say that I am disgusted by cancel culture. Disgusted. This is so harmful to society, and is a dark path that the left has taken in my country. To put it plainly, my political party has turned into whinny little people. People should lose their jobs over things like sexual or any type of harassment but when I read Stallman's actual comments last year, I thought that it was very clea…

> People should lose their jobs over things like sexual or any type of harassment but when I read Stallman's actual comments last year, I thought that it was very clear that he was only defending his friend, who was dead and couldn't defend himself. RMS seems to have a long history: > The stories of thirty years of MIT women alumni. * https://selamjie.medium.com/remove-richard-stallman-appendix... Also: * https://rms…

For the other side of the issue, please also see:

https://github.com/rms-support-letter/rms-support-letter.git... and the open letter in support of RMS more generally: https://rms-support-letter.github.io

and, quoting the former president of the ACLU and civil rights activist Nadine Strossen on the Stallman matter:

https://www.wetheweb.org/post/cancel-we-the-web

Re: Mozilla, Tor Join Calls to Oust Richard Stallman from Free Software Foundation

#194

Post by pseudalopex »

shock wrote: post #187
pseudalopex wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legal testimony happens in a court of law. Testimony can happen anywhere. Religious testimony for instance. Or testimonial advertising.

To which kind of testimony were you referring in your GP comment?

"firsthand authentication of a fact" or "open acknowledgment".[1]

[1] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/testimony

Re: Mozilla, Tor Join Calls to Oust Richard Stallman from Free Software Foundation

#195

Post by claudiawerner »

dragonwriter wrote: post #95
gaspmore wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you have to love cancel culture to be a liberal...?

[flagged]

'Cancel culture' is a thing - it's been the subject of academic scrutiny, even by left-leaning professors and academics on how it affects movements within the left. And you're right, it isn't a uniquely 'leftist' thing. But purity politics (whether the predecessor or the underlying philosophy of how 'cancel culture' operates - regardless of whether it's a 'thing' or not) and moral grandstanding are serious topics of concern and interest to political and moral philosophers, and sociologists too. There is balanced academic analysis both in condemnation and in praise of so-called 'cancel culture'. I think, however, this comes down to a measure of practicality among activists and what they want to accomplish. There are several good ways of being true to your ideals and unwavering, without 'callouts' and 'cancelling'.

Whether or not you support Stallman, whether or not you find the accusations of 'cancel culture' in some places misguided and unfocused, to say that activism hasn't taken a turn to moral purity and the impossibility of forgiveness betrays either an ignorance of modern activism (which I consider myself a part of), or non-involvement in how these processes form. Arguably, 'cancel culture' also forms part of the carceral turn of various activist projects.

When the worst thing you can do is admit a mistake and apologize, there's a problem. When most of the population, according to polls, says it is reluctant to make its true political views known (right or left) - there's a problem.

Re: Mozilla, Tor Join Calls to Oust Richard Stallman from Free Software Foundation

#196

Post by geofft »

kazinator wrote: post #166

Clickbait headline. This story is just about the original petition and the original 1500 names; yesterday's news. The petition in support of Stallman has a comparable number of names.

... that's exactly why the headline points out that among those names on the original petition are some major organizations producing free software. It even names the specific organizations. It's not "clickbait" in the usual sense, like "You won't believe who's calling for Richard Stallman to leave the FSF!". (And it's a much better headline than "1500 people sign petition..." would be.)

Which organizations have signed the petition in support of Stallman?

Or even just looking at individuals, which GNU project members or FSF staffers have signed it?

Re: Mozilla, Tor Join Calls to Oust Richard Stallman from Free Software Foundation

#197

Post by geofft »

pseudalopex wrote: post #175
gentleman11 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brave only exists because Mozilla fired eich for some donations he made to an anti gay-marriage group, iirc. I really dislike the donation he made, but firing people for their legal personal political behaviour is like poison to a free society

Eich wasn't fired. He resigned because people didn't want to follow him.

Eich also drew, to my knowledge, almost no objection when he was CTO of Mozilla. It was when he became CEO - a non-technical, political role - that people started asking about whether he was the right choice for it. His technical qualifications include that he invented one of the most popular programming languages ever and one in which Mozilla heavily invests. His political qualifications include that he lobbied to deny human rights to his own employees.

Eich and Stallman both are people who would have done far more both for the causes they believe in as well as their own careers if they recognized they were more effective as technical leaders than as political ones.

Re: Mozilla, Tor Join Calls to Oust Richard Stallman from Free Software Foundation

#198

Post by jasonpeacock »

ipnon wrote: post #44

I believe there is a significant chilling effect in regards to speaking out in the defense of Richard Stallman, a man who has never been convicted of a crime, and who in response to the allegations in the open letter has said things such as: "We know that Giuffre was being coerced into sex – by Epstein. She was being harmed," "Through personal conversations in recent years, I've learned to understand how sex with a c…

What about all the women who have come forward, talking about what a massive creep he is?

This isn't about some technicality about what he said, but a culmination of 30 years of horrible behavior.

It takes trivial research (check Twitter) for the many personal accounts from women who will never get close to him, and have been driven from the industry by both him and the people who have protected him.

Re: Mozilla, Tor Join Calls to Oust Richard Stallman from Free Software Foundation

#199

Post by anthk »

captaincurrie wrote: post #84
gaspmore wrote: post #55

Yawn. Are people not tired of cancel culture yet?

It will never go away. Cancel culture has been around forever, its just been amplified by Social Media.

Between the rancid and racist Trumpists and blind/clueless SJW's with a mob based "justice", common sense is doomed in America.

Re: Mozilla, Tor Join Calls to Oust Richard Stallman from Free Software Foundation

#200

Post by kristopolous »

salawat wrote: post #159
kristopolous wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an office in my bedroom. Is that ok?

That depends. Do you wear shirts while on teleconferences, and what art do people get subjected to? I will also require your taste in literature, boxers or briefs, tube socks with/without the colored stripes or those ankle socks, and toilets or bidets to make a final determination.

you'll have to buy me dinner first.
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