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Mozilla, Tor Join Calls to Oust Richard Stallman from Free Software Foundation

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Re: Mozilla, Tor Join Calls to Oust Richard Stallman from Free Software Foundation

#121

Post by yellowapple »

orra wrote: post #73
tubbyjr wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unbelievable... so autism is now a treatable disease? Is LGBTQ++ also treatable according to you? Your comment is bigotted nonesense across the whole gamut.

> autism is now a treatable disease? I didn't say cure. But there are therapies for autism: therapy, for a start. > Is LGBTQ++ also treatable according to you? That's a crass straw man. Being LGBT+ is not a disorder. Indeed, being trans was recently removed as a disorder from DSM.

> That's a crass straw man. Being LGBT+ is not a disorder. Indeed, being trans was recently removed as a disorder from DSM.

And who's to say the same won't eventually be said of autism spectrum disorder, or social communication disorder? Like you say, being homosexual or dysphoric was a "disorder" until it wasn't.

That is: it's hardly a strawman to draw comparisons between how homosexuality / transgender identity was historically regarded v. how neuroatypical personality traits are regarded now.

Re: Mozilla, Tor Join Calls to Oust Richard Stallman from Free Software Foundation

#122

Post by salawat »

krapp wrote: post #98
gentleman11 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Edit: I don’t want to comment

OK, but we're talking about Free Software culture and whether there's a chilling effect for defending Richard Stallman versus criticizing him. That specifically is the subject of the comment I replied to.

The poster you're replying to is making the point tge Stallman hysteria is just another symptom of a general trend; likely characterized by extreme levels of tribalism leading to frequent and destructive No-True-Scotsman-like behavior that freezes out any attempts at any positive inclusivity.

You're looking at the football stadium, he's commenting on the sports riot in progress.

Re: Mozilla, Tor Join Calls to Oust Richard Stallman from Free Software Foundation

#123

Post by throwawaysea »

crazypython wrote: post #36
orra wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stallman seems to have a history of being manipulative and sexually harassing women. https://selamjie.medium.com/remove-richard-stallman-appendix... He also has some troubling views that at best make him an inappropriate spokesperson. https://rms-open-letter.github.io/appendix

Here's a satirization of the open letter: https://ultralux97.medium.com/stallman-must-be-removed-a3061...

I think your link might be broken. Here's a working link: https://ultralux97.medium.com/stallman-must-be-removed-a3061...

Re: Mozilla, Tor Join Calls to Oust Richard Stallman from Free Software Foundation

#124

Post by kristopolous »

orra wrote: post #92
endisneigh wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I saw that, but I didn’t see anything that he did specifically. It seems he said some things that one might disagree with which is fair enough but saying it’s sexual harassment seems like a stretch IMO.

Did you, uh, read the medium link that I and the appendix linked to? https://selamjie.medium.com/remove-richard-stallman-appendix... He threatened suicide if a woman wouldn't date him. That's abusive manipulation. He, unsolicitedly hands out 'pleasure cards' to women at conferences. That's harassment: Conferences are a interest and professional environment; they're not Tinder. Having a bed in his office at MIT is cre…

I have an office in my bedroom. Is that ok?

Re: Mozilla, Tor Join Calls to Oust Richard Stallman from Free Software Foundation

#125

Post by throwawaysea »

vlsmaker wrote: post #116
orra wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're downplaying it entirely. He has a track record of handing out sexualized 'pleasure cards' at professional conferences. Women at MIT were warned away from him, told to keep plants to ward him off. And one of the most troubling things he has done is psychological manipulation. Many jurisdictions rightly recognise as domestic abuse. In particular, he told one woman he would kill himself if she didn't date him. De…

For heavens sake, "business or pleasure?" was the question you were asked at the border before getting a stamp in your passport once upon a time. So a business card turned into a pleasure card , which has nothing to do with sex at all, except for people who want to see things that aren't there. It's one of RMS's quaint re-namings, and people turn it into something sinister. > Women at MIT were warned away from him, t…

Thank you for the explanation of the "business or pleasure" connection. That's how I read it as well but with everyone pulling out their torches and scythes for a witch hunt, I was starting to second guess my own opinion and perception of all this. I'm not sure if there's a word for that phenomenon...

Re: Mozilla, Tor Join Calls to Oust Richard Stallman from Free Software Foundation

#126

Post by salawat »

dragonwriter wrote: post #95
gaspmore wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you have to love cancel culture to be a liberal...?

[flagged]

No, you don't, you need a modest dose of pattern recognition ability to recognize the fundamental pattern behind cancel culture. It's the same thing, different day, and always worth standing in opposition of no matter where you are on the political spectrum, or where the victim stands in relation to you.

Re: Mozilla, Tor Join Calls to Oust Richard Stallman from Free Software Foundation

#127

Post by yellowapple »

jfim wrote: post #42
yellowapple wrote: post #15

Glad to see that Mozilla refuses to tolerate neurodiversity. Socially awkward people deserve to be permanently ostracized from society, am I right? I'm proud to use a web browser developed by people who offer no quarter to autists, schizos, and the rest of them loonies; if they wanted inclusion, they should just stop being mentally unwell - it's all in their heads, after all! Thank you, Mitchell Baker, very cool. (/s…

> I'm skeptical of the idea that having heterodox opinions or being a bit of a stubborn ass should be a fireable offense It's more of an issue when someone is part of the leadership for a group though, as they are seen as representing the whole group.

Well maybe that mentality is the actual problem, rather than the targets thereof. It's quite possible to separate personal beliefs from professional interactions, and unless there's tangible evidence that said separation ain't happening, then maybe we could stand to assume innocence in the absense of evidence of guilt?

Like, should we consider the emtire organization developing the Brave web browser to be implicitly homophobic because its founder and CEO once donated to an anti-gay-marriage campaign? Should we have considered Mozilla itself to have been at one point implicitly homophobic in its brief appointment of that same person as CEO? Was Netscape homophobic for that reason?

Or do you think that maybe people can have views that ain't representative of their employers?

Re: Mozilla, Tor Join Calls to Oust Richard Stallman from Free Software Foundation

#128

Post by throwawaysea »

tubbyjr wrote: post #41

Well, there go my annual Tor donations, oh well. Let's see if they can make up for these losses by going the cancel culture/censorship route. And Mozilla has been a joke for a while with their latest CEO. He's literally trying to jump on anything currently trendy, to hold onto his seat and salary for as long as possible while he drives its projects into the bedrock.

I am not even sure how to trust something like Tor given their name appears on this letter. If the people leading it are willing to participate in cancel culture witch hunts built on baseless allegations and bad faith hyperbolic exaggerations, then they will be just as unprincipled and ready to betray the privacy of Tor users when it does not agree with their ideologies or values.

Re: Mozilla, Tor Join Calls to Oust Richard Stallman from Free Software Foundation

#129

Post by MauranKilom »

lukasb wrote: post #20
datavirtue wrote: post #11

What did Stallman do specifically? Why is it always so hard to find out what someone actually said or did when they are being cancelled?

Start here: https://selamjie.medium.com/remove-richard-stallman-appendix...

I read through it, and the first concrete accusations cites a newspaper article titled "Renowned MIT Scientist Defends Epstein: Victims Were 'Entirely Willing'" which is flat out wrong. He does not defend Epstein (but Marvin Minsky), and he does not state that the victims were entirely willing. Read the original email instead of the smearing article in a tabloid.

I also recommend the treatment here: https://www.wetheweb.org/post/cancel-we-the-web

Re: Mozilla, Tor Join Calls to Oust Richard Stallman from Free Software Foundation

#130

Post by crazypython »

throwawaysea wrote: post #123
crazypython wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a satirization of the open letter: https://ultralux97.medium.com/stallman-must-be-removed-a3061...

I think your link might be broken. Here's a working link: https://ultralux97.medium.com/stallman-must-be-removed-a3061...

Thanks! I edited mine to reflect yours.
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