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The dispassionate developer

blog.ploeh.dk

211–220 of 262 posts

Re: The dispassionate developer

#211
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking that a step further, we often actively discourage looking at OSS contributions during resume review for the same reason we don't offer take home interview assignments: it's biased against people who don't have a whole lot of extra time at home. When we have done either of the above, the singles who work part time have a bunch of time to perfect their work suddenly have a lot to show over the single parents who…

We're having a bit of a debate about this internally as the company I work for is struggling to hire good candidates. For a while we've had a take-home test and that has increased our success rate somewhat. But as you say, we really don't want to lay unreasonable expectations on people who may have other obligations, but we've had many people in the past who've interviewed very well but turned out to be completely in…

I've written a fair bit about hiring processes on my blog. My most recent post about is at https://blog.urth.org/2019/07/11/a-technical-hiring-process-...

We use this process at my current employer, and we've gotten mostly good feedback about it (including from people we didn't hire), though some candidates don't like it. The people we've hired using this process have been quite good, though I can't say if that's the process or something else that leads to that outcome.

Re: The dispassionate developer

#212
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about merit but about bias

You generally become better with more practice though, right? Whole 10,000 hours thing? Surely someone who spends more time developing will be better at it. Now of course this doesn’t matter past a certain point — people could spend all their time working on something that doesn’t help them grow. Then once you have those 10,000 hours of actual growth, you are probably close to a Senior developer level. Which after 5…

as someone heading towards 5 years developing, I'm not sure it's as straightforward as you think (and if it is, I'd love advice on how to improve). In my career so far my work has roughly gone in phases of backend, frontend, devops/infrastructure. I've been able to improve my soft skills of learning how different organizations work, learning how to network and collaborate, learning how to learn, etc, and improve my technical skills of development, learning about best practices, etc, based on the particular technologies I work with at a given time. But I haven't had the chance to just spend 5 years progressively leveling up my java backend or javascript frontend skills. As a result I don't think I would qualify for a senior developer level quite yet. But by that token, perhaps I'm also not the best person to say whether or not this is the typical path for a sr dev or not

Re: The dispassionate developer

#213
This writer clearly doesn't understand the Free Software movement.

" For reasons that are complicated and that I don't fully understand, the software development community in the eighties and nineties developed a culture of anti-capitalism and liberal values that put technology on a pedestal for its own sake. Open source good; commercial software bad. Free software good; commercial software bad.

I'm not entirely unsympathetic to such ideas, but it's seems clear, now, that these ideas have had unintended consequences. The idea of free software, for example, has led to a software economy where you, the user, are no longer the customer, but the product. "

Free software is free as in freedom, not free as in you don't have to pay for it. If Google & co followed the ideals of free software, all of their source code for their servers would be available to the public, and indivuduals would be free to spin up and run their own google that doesn't use ads.

This writer has no idea what he is talking about, its not worth reading this post.

Re: The dispassionate developer

#214
I feel like these articles gloss over the fact coding, vlogging, etc. in our free time isn't always about "advancing the craft" and "career advancement".

People like painting, baking, brewing beer, playing music or sports... and also coding. For free.

Re: The dispassionate developer

#215
I dont think this person understands passion. When you do something out of passion, it doesnt burn you out. It doesnt feel like work, because you enjoy it. By definition, you cant burn out by pursuing your passion.

I am passionate about software development - I enjoy it and while I have experienced burnout before, its never been from software development, only from all of the other things that have to do with business. I want to hire passionate developers not because they are "easier to exploit" but because passion helps you be better at what you do - if you can program for hours and not feel burnt out because you enjoy it, youre likley to program a lot and gain a lot of technical expertise. Passionate people are more likley to be happy with their jobs, and happiness can be contageious - it contributes to a positive office environment. I dont expect anyone to ever work more than 40 hours a week regardless of passion - in fact I discourage it, and even encourage working less than that if you can still get things done doing so. Passionate people don't get "rewarded with a pat on the back" as the writer claims - they get rewarded by having done something they enjoyed and being happy. Huge difference.

It sounds like this person isn't passionate, and is trying to make up for it by mischaracterizing passionate people and attacking them. This seems dumb, jelous, and mean. I agree that passion shouldnt be a requirement to be employed in a field - after all, lots of people arent passionate about anything and still have to make money. Fortunatley, from fist hand experience, it is obviously not neccisary to be passionate about software to have a career in it. We already live in the world this person wants. I agree that this is how it should be. I dont see the point of trying to go after people who value passion or try to form work groups where thats a sought after trait, them doing so doesnt make things worse for anyone else.

Re: The dispassionate developer

#216

If a company is looking for an open source work in the candidate CV it means they want to know if that person is keen on providing work for free. It means that the candidate shouldn't have problems staying over time without pay because it is his or hers passion. There is a distinction between passion and exploitation. You can be passionate without having to give away your labour for free. Big corporations want people…

> If a company is looking for an open source work in the candidate CV it means they want to know if that person is keen on providing work for free. It means that the candidate shouldn't have problems staying over time without pay because it is his or hers passion.

I think this would honestly be a bad assumption to make. The people I've worked with that did the most amount of work on their own time have typically not done any OSS work.. because they were working on work stuff all the time. Those that dabbled in (non work related) OSS stuff often were able to do so because they had clearer boundaries between work/personal work.

Re: The dispassionate developer

#217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We're having a bit of a debate about this internally as the company I work for is struggling to hire good candidates. What's the compensation like? Stock? > For a while we've had a take-home test and that has increased our success rate somewhat. But as you say, we really don't want to lay unreasonable expectations on people who may have other obligations You'll also find out that the people you really want to hire…

A lot of senior engineers would refuse to do a fizzbuzz. I'm really not seeing the problem here.

100% of those who can't code would refuse it indeed!

Re: The dispassionate developer

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of senior engineers would refuse to do a fizzbuzz. I'm really not seeing the problem here.

On the contrary, I think this is a huge red flag. Just go along with the interviewer, maybe highlight that this is typically and entry-level problem, but solve it. You really don't want to hire someone who not only can't solve fizzbuzz, but also refuses to hear about it and complain that it's 'beneath them' (what a annoying attitude!).

FizzBuzz typically gets raised eyebrows from folks who never had to do it because they assume there's a trick somewhere. It can't just be a one-liner they assume.

https://blog.codinghorror.com/why-cant-programmers-program/

Re: The dispassionate developer

#219
Whenever this topic comes up, there's this sort of assumption that passion must be impractical, but I actually find that the "best" people are ones that find a way to be passionately engaged in things that happen to deliver a lot of financial value to themselves and others.

I would say that I am passionate about solving problems with technology - I was coding since GWBASIC on a Soviet 286 when I was 8 years old. I am in product now and I still get fired up about solving problems for my users and clients.

But...

I was also able to channel this passion into lucrative fields. If you asked me 2 decades ago if my passion is derivatives trading software, I'd say no. But turns out this field gave me plenty of space to be creative, enthusiastic, and engaged while giving me and my family a good life. And also I can connect my work to important things (eg: helping asset managers generate good returns for pension funds)

To be honest, I'd hesitate to hire someone who is just all about open source, because if they don't care (that much) about financial impact of their work on their own life, I can't rely on them to care about the financial impact of their software on my company's success either, and I guess it just feels like impractical/unpragmatic decision making.

Re: The dispassionate developer

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of senior engineers would refuse to do a fizzbuzz. I'm really not seeing the problem here.

100% of those who can't code would refuse it indeed!

Imagine you're a senior developer with over 10 years experience. You're happily employed and make good money. You're contacted by a recruiter for an interview. Perhaps the company even uses some software you wrote.

"Ok this problem is called fizzbuzz. We just need to see if you can really code."

It sounds like the situation was of course different, but situations like above have happened.

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