Comparing Svelte and React

Post by brundolf » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 11:29 PM UTC

ithrow wrote: post #77

brundolf wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I agree with your framing of the precise terminology ("passing a reference to an object, by value" vs "passing an object by reference"), but it also isn't important. What's important is this: let a = { foo: "bar" } let b = { foo: "bar" } console.log(a === b) // false and this: let a = { foo: "bar" } let b = a b.foo = "blah" console.log(a.foo) // "blah" This is the kind of misunderstanding that causes ins…

This is the kind of misunderstanding that causes insidious bugs. That's how all mainstream languages with a GC work, Java, C#, Ruby and Python, it's not particular to JS. And this why why languages like Clojure are nice to work with. but it also isn't important It's important if you really want to know why your examples work they way they do.

Post by dmitriid » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 11:44 PM UTC

acemarke wrote: post #87

mistersys wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah this is the problem with the React ecosystem. I'm intimately familiar with this stack and used to use redux with "duck" modules professionally, complete with sagas and epics, and rxjs and the whole kitten, so it's not that I don't understand all the terms and am just overwhelmed. It's just that once you stop using Redux, it becomes so much easier to build and manage your app, and you don't even realize how much…

I do get the arguments that you're making here about Svelte, and don't disagree. That said, "Modern Redux" code is very different than what you've probably seen even just a couple years ago. We've introduced newer APIs like Redux Toolkit, which is a set of utilities that provide a light abstraction to simplify the most common Redux tasks, and the React-Redux hooks API, which is generally easier to use than the tradit…

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 11:55 PM UTC

alfonsodev wrote: post #75

deckard1 wrote: post #69

I'm a big fan of Svelte. I've raved about their documentation before, but it bears repeating: this should be the gold standard. You can read it all in a day. There are examples to follow right next to the documentation. Svelte is both succinct and powerful. I find this in contrast to React which is often baffling and incoherent. I say this as someone that has used React professionally for 6 years. They've changed the…

I think many people adopted React because Facebook was behind it, and using it in production, the ecosystem is huge, there is a react- package for everything you can image, there is also react-native, I don't like it, but there it is, you can reuse the knowledge to build native mobile apps. Now Svelte, I haven't been following, but I think the creators are working in what's going to be next and even better framework[…

Post by wwweston » Thu, Mar 25, 2021, 12:01 AM UTC

brundolf wrote: post #40

ljm wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

React's hooks (and some JSX style things in general) are quite pernicious there because they essentially break JS: you can't use them inside an `if` or a `for` or a `while`, or even within another function. You're no longer writing Javascript, you're writing a restricted subset to avoid undefined behaviour. That alone is a concern, because any junior programmer getting an introduction through React is going to get a…

In some ways JS is an excellent first language- beyond its broad applicability, it has an extremely "average of all the others" set of features and primary syntaxes. An experienced JS programmer will be conceptually comfortable with Python and Ruby, syntactically comfortable with Java and C, etc. But in terms of the industry-standard practices/ecosystem, it is a terrible first language if you want to gain a generaliz…

Post by nwienert » Thu, Mar 25, 2021, 12:02 AM UTC

ZephyrBlu wrote: post #50

nwienert wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s totally fair. I discourage redux and all related patterns for this very reason. Well that, and I think local state is actually a good thing (and moving state out into separate files a bad thing). To me the proxy object (or proxy class) is really the best abstraction - much like valtio. Or a compiler like svelte. There’s no reason for ducks, epics, sagas, etc etc. We have a programming language already, w…

It sounds like you're agreeing with me. You don't need everything up front, so listing everything is a bit disingenuous. It's the same explaining a fully kitted out backend (Routing, caching, authentication, etc) and then going "see, it's so complicated!". Well duh, it's a big and complex system. I think the issue with valtio is that there's no central store. As far as I can see, you'll end up having these proxies sc…

  const createStore = (name, store) => {
    if (window.stores[name]) throw 'store already exists'
    window.stores = {
       ...window.stores
       [name]: valtio(store)
    }
  }