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High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

scientificamerican.com

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Re: High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

#191

Post by astrange »

cauthon wrote: post #137
no_one_ever wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really care one way or the other, but my impression is the group offers a setting for like-minded (read 'higher-IQ') individuals to come talk about anything and not just the thing they are there for.

> like-minded (read 'higher-IQ') individuals But what topic are they of like mind about? "High IQ" individuals might be left-wing or right-wing, religious or secular, capitalist or communist, etc. The only theme likely to be in common among all Mensa members is a pride in their IQ.

If it's a group in real life, then you also have the common factors that you wanted to join a social group and you live near each other.

That can mean a lot - it's why meetup.com has always worked for me when I've tried it, even if the group has no official topic. (Of course I stopped after I'd gotten enough out of it.)

Re: High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

#192

Post by silicon2401 »

rory wrote: post #5

> It’s also possible that people who join Mensa differ from other people in ways other than just IQ. For example, people preoccupied with intellectual pursuits may spend less time than the average person on physical exercise and social interaction, both of which have been shown to have broad benefits for psychological and physical health. Is Mensa really an "intellectual pursuit"? I'm not sure exactly what Mensa does…

> but maybe people insecure enough to join an IQ-restricted club are more likely to be those who suffer from setbacks in other parts of their lives.

to me this reads similar to the old misconception that all bullies are insecure (it's often quite the opposite). what makes you think that people engaging in a group based on what they feel is a big part of their identity are insecure? Do you think gay people in pride parades, minorities in various race groups, etc are insecure? I'm not taking a position on mensa, gender, etc. I just don't agree with the idea that people joining mensa are necessarily insecure.

Re: High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

#193

Post by astrange »

underwater wrote: post #167
GekkePrutser wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never joined Mensa but I very clearly see the thing about neglecting physical and social pursuits because they are harder than intellectual ones :) Makes sense to choose things you're naturally good in, it's not really a 'preoccupation' as such. Someone who is great at sports will tend to focus on that. It's just natural to direct yourself towards pursuits that come easily. The problem with this thing of course…

Adopting a sedentary lifestyle isn't very smart. You'd think a club of high-IQ folk would know better.

A good example is that world chess champions are actually very athletic, especially the Soviet ones in the past and Magnus Carlsen today.

My FAANG experience is that people like outdoor sports and going to the gym too, I wonder where all the Linux con t-shirts and drinking Jolt cola people went…

Re: High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

#194

Post by smeej »

astrange wrote: post #178
akvadrako wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, there are probably some stability concerns. But I expect the largest aspect is just energy usage. Brains use a lot of energy and until recently it was the primary limiting factor. Otherwise we would also all have more muscle mass. There doesn't seem to be much downside to that.

Humans have (IIRC nearly unique) ability to have adaptive muscle mass. Gorillas get huge muscles without needing to exercise and by only eating vegetables, but we grow and shrink with our diets. This is helpful because it means we can survive with unpredictable diets. But there might be other benefits like heart health or avoiding cancer. Another big issue with huge brains is that your babies take longer to develop a…

And your babies have to be born exceptionally helpless and vulnerable, often taking a year or more just to walk, whereas many animals begin walking in a matter of minutes or hours.

A significant portion of their development has to be moved outside the safety of the womb or their heads would get them stuck!

Re: High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

#195

Post by HPsquared »

carabiner wrote: post #163
HPsquared wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone who has high IQ and depressed, may still perform poorly at school. This can also be a vicious cycle. High IQ alone isn't sufficient for educational attainment, it's not even particularly necessary in most fields: for most people education is a matter of hard work and rote learning.

Of course. Gifted students are sometimes failed by schools. But I think it's safe bet that a random large group of college grads will have a higher average IQ than adults who only finished high school. Don't you?

Taking the average, that's probably true.

It's open for debate though, whether the effect of depression (and other mental disorders) could have just as much influence as IQ when it comes to educational attainment.

Both factors can play their own part (though they may be correlated with each other as well)

Re: High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

#196

Post by rory »

toyota86 wrote: post #143
rory wrote: post #5

> It’s also possible that people who join Mensa differ from other people in ways other than just IQ. For example, people preoccupied with intellectual pursuits may spend less time than the average person on physical exercise and social interaction, both of which have been shown to have broad benefits for psychological and physical health. Is Mensa really an "intellectual pursuit"? I'm not sure exactly what Mensa does…

> people insecure enough to join an IQ-restricted club I don't understand this sentiment. There are race/ethnicity-restricted clubs, men-only clubs, athletic clubs, equestrian clubs, farmers clubs, car ownership clubs. However, when it's about IQ (something which you say you hold in disdain), suddenly out come the insults. Insecure nerds, right? They only have their insignificant test scores, they must be a despicabl…

I never said I hold IQ with disdain. It's just an attribute, not a hobby. Mensa is more like a tall-people's club (descriptive, generally regarded as positive, quantitative cutoff) than it is like an ethnic club (shared culture) or an equestrian or car owner's club (shared interest).

Re: High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

#197

Post by giantg2 »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #171
giantg2 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not exactly. There may be some correlation, but there are certainly people who can get in via an aptitude test who would not be able to get in using an IQ test. The testing methods are completely different.

> There may be some correlation There is so much correlation that the correlation of an aptitude test with an IQ test is basically equal to the correlation of one IQ test with another IQ test. (Around 0.8) By any definition other than "it can't be an IQ test unless that's part of its name", the aptitude tests are IQ tests. They do not differ in function.

That's simply not true. The form and function of the tests are fundamentally different. The biggest difference is that you can study for one, but studying for the other is considered cheating. You can see my other comment for further clarification.

Re: High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

#198

Post by smeej »

astrange wrote: post #184
jpxw wrote: post #36

My pet (and layman) theory is that people with exceptionally high IQs might have a higher rate of genetic mutation compared to the general population. In my experience people with exceptionally high IQs often look unusual. If that relationship is true, it might also explain a higher rate of mental and physical disorders, many of which can result from genetic mutations.

If they're so smart, they should be able to figure out how to use makeup/better clothes/plastic surgery and get a better haircut. (Reverse causation: you don't notice that other people are smart, because they're well-dressed.)

Just because someone chooses not to do something, it doesn't mean they can't figure out how.

I'm quite sure I could learn the techniques for choosing fashionable clothes or applying makeup, but the list of things I'd rather do with my time is extremely long. I won't have time to get to half of them as it is, even if I live 200 years.

Re: High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

#199

Post by smeej »

astrange wrote: post #187
chrisco255 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The RNA therapy doesn't stop you from being contagious. And yes, it IS about me, because it's something being injected into my body. We are all going to get Covid at some point, if you haven't noticed. I can't put that genie back in the bottle. If your risk profile deems that the vaccine is worth it for YOU, then YOU do it. Don't pressure other people to. Their health choices is none of your business.

Getting a virus is also "something being injected into your body" and it's much more dangerous than mRNA, which has no reported risks and is 100% guaranteed to be not self reproducing. Actually, we know that getting vaccines (esp. flu shot) somehow improves your health even beyond not getting what they vaccinate for. Getting the covid vaccine appears to cure long-term effects of covid infection in patients.

There's a difference between requesting that something be injected into your body and something injecting itself into your body against your will, and it's disingenuous to conflate them.

Re: High IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders

#200

Post by JoeAltmaier »

rory wrote: post #5

> It’s also possible that people who join Mensa differ from other people in ways other than just IQ. For example, people preoccupied with intellectual pursuits may spend less time than the average person on physical exercise and social interaction, both of which have been shown to have broad benefits for psychological and physical health. Is Mensa really an "intellectual pursuit"? I'm not sure exactly what Mensa does…

Its popular to imagine that smart people have some pitiable deficits. I'm afraid that many, many smart people are doing just fine. If they join a club, its often for the same reason anyone else joins a club - to meet people with like interests.
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