I'm not super familiar with this space and am a bit confused - why is this big on automakers and not other chip consumers? Also 300mm seems kind of big for chips? What am I missing?
Fire Destroys 300mm Line of Renesas’ Naka Factory
61–70 of 120 posts
Re: Fire Destroys 300mm Line of Renesas’ Naka Factory
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
Auto manufacturers can't just put in a general purpose CPU. Embedded CPUs have functionality general purpose CPUs don't have. Not to mention it would take months to design new hardware and write new software. The chips being put into cars today were selected at least 5 years ago.
One Raspberry Pi in every car and problem solved.
From an industrial/automotive/aerospace standpoint Raspberry Pi's are hot garbage.
Re: Fire Destroys 300mm Line of Renesas’ Naka Factory
#63This is horrible. What keeps me up at night is thinking about TSMC. One company. Just needs an earth quake, fire, explosion, something and the whole world is crippled. I know we have samsung, intel, etc other fabs. But if TSMC ever went down it would make the thailand floods for hard drives look like a joke.
You can sleep a _little_ better: the narrative around this ended up being focused around TSMC, but it's simply because that's the most visible part of the chain, they're first to a new node and all the newest gadgets need the newest node, so all the newest gadgets are on TSMC. They're not solely responsible for like 90% of chips or anything.
TSMC might not be responsible for 90% of the chips, but estimates are they account for 28% of the mature market [1]. They don't only do new nodes, but older nodes as well. Between them and UMC (also Taiwan based), those 2 companies account for 41% of all modern IC production. Micron and Powerchip are also big fabs out in Taiwan and if someone were to say that 50-60% of all 45nm+ ICs were made in Taiwan I would not be surprised.
If there was a geopolitical struggle and the fabs in Taiwan were impacted for months or years, we would see the effects of that for years or even decades. Its why China, US and EU are all trying to build some more resiliency in the supply chain. Its also why Taiwan has resisted allowing tech/expertise to leave, since the amount of leverage they have lets them punch way above their weight and makes them such a strategic partner to the rest of the world.
[1] https://semiwiki.com/forum/index.php?threads/tsmc-has-the-la....
Re: Fire Destroys 300mm Line of Renesas’ Naka Factory
#64I'm not super familiar with this space and am a bit confused - why is this big on automakers and not other chip consumers? Also 300mm seems kind of big for chips? What am I missing?
Because that's where they make the 300mm wafers they use for their engine MCUs: https://www.renesas.com/us/en/products/microcontrollers-micr...
Re: Fire Destroys 300mm Line of Renesas’ Naka Factory
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
But TSMC's Arizona plant will make 5nm chips in 2023, by which time 5nm wont be the leading-edge node - 3nm will be. It's nice to see some geodiversity however. In any case, TSMC is dependent on ASML, which has a monopoly on leading-edge EUV tech. There is a decent amount of competition at older nodes, like > 40nm. So we'll still be able to make some chips if TSMC completely goes out of business, but obviously it won…
You make it sound like anyone with the will can just take ASML product and create a leading fab. If that was the case Intel wouldn't be in the mess it is in.
I'm not saying ASML -> cutting-edge capacity, but the opposite. Having cutting-edge capacity probably means you're dependent on ASML.
Re: Fire Destroys 300mm Line of Renesas’ Naka Factory
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
That would do it.
Thinking about it, I would expect some kidnap... immigration to the US of some personnel would probably happen.
Makes you wonder if those buildings would be rigged already. Conspiracy level stuff, for sure but it is such a strategic asset. In WWII bridges that were still in daily use in Europe were already mined well before the territory changed control with the leavers trying to deny the new arrivals the use of the bridges.
Re: Fire Destroys 300mm Line of Renesas’ Naka Factory
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thinking about it, I would expect some kidnap... immigration to the US of some personnel would probably happen.
Makes you wonder if those buildings would be rigged already. Conspiracy level stuff, for sure but it is such a strategic asset. In WWII bridges that were still in daily use in Europe were already mined well before the territory changed control with the leavers trying to deny the new arrivals the use of the bridges.
In the modern era, it probably is just gathering precise positioning for a missile launch. I expect some computer wiping will be in the cards too. That might be the modern version of rigging the buildings already.
Given what a strategic asset they are, I would expect its not really "conspiracy level stuff" on various plans. After all, the US had attack plans for the UK between the world wars.
Re: Fire Destroys 300mm Line of Renesas’ Naka Factory
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thinking about it, I would expect some kidnap... immigration to the US of some personnel would probably happen.
Makes you wonder if those buildings would be rigged already. Conspiracy level stuff, for sure but it is such a strategic asset. In WWII bridges that were still in daily use in Europe were already mined well before the territory changed control with the leavers trying to deny the new arrivals the use of the bridges.
I thought I remember watching a video about TSMC and the buildings are all rigged to blow should China invade.
Re: Fire Destroys 300mm Line of Renesas’ Naka Factory
#69This is horrible. What keeps me up at night is thinking about TSMC. One company. Just needs an earth quake, fire, explosion, something and the whole world is crippled. I know we have samsung, intel, etc other fabs. But if TSMC ever went down it would make the thailand floods for hard drives look like a joke.
It might even be a good investment to build a fab just to clean up in the event of a shortage. Kind of like how if anyone in Texas had the good foresight to winterize they could have made a year of profit in a few days...
> Kind of like how if anyone in Texas had the good foresight to winterize they could have made a year of profit in a few days...
Hmm. When would this foresighted person have made their preparations? What would installation have cost? What would maintenance have cost? More or less than a year's worth of profits?
Re: Fire Destroys 300mm Line of Renesas’ Naka Factory
#70As someone who has had to endure over a year of very close to the metal (in this case, imagine centuries old, gnarly, rusty random pot metal, maybe) development on a Renesas platform, I'm tempted to think "fewer Renesas products? Awesome!!" but obviously that would be childish. I'm sorry for all the people hurt by this, fire is no joke. Edit: added missing words.
I’m with you. Renesas SuperH needs to go.
What, you don't like having arithmetic and logical left shifts? I thought orthogonality was a good idea :P