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PinePhone – Beta Edition Linux SmartPhone Preorder

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Re: PinePhone – Beta Edition Linux SmartPhone Preorder

#261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The benefits go both ways: the community also reaches out to the developers. A lot of software is added to repos without any input from the devs. The plain truth of the matter is that commercial app stores are malware distributors, and community repositories are not. The commercial app store model does not work, at least not for the user. Also: not all software is commercial, and not everyone wants their phones comme…

> not everyone wants their phones commercialized. While your statement is technically correct, the number of users falling into that category, and would go the extra effort to ensure a non-commercialized day to day phone is usable, is infinitesimally small. Most users embrace the convenience associated with the commercial solution. This will be a tiny niche phone

I think the problem here is liability.

If I buy a phone from you, and then download an app that bricks it, I want my money back from you.

Yes, you can argue that I'm responsible for that, but consumer protection laws will apply, and there's going to be a court case, possibly even a class action suit. Too many uneducated users who refuse to take personal responsibility for their actions. Yes, it's not ideal, but this is how people are.

Your response has at some point got to include vetting the software that your users can download onto their phone, for purely financial reasons.

If I buy a laptop, and then install Linux on it, and download a malicious package and install it, then that's on me. If someone buys a Dell laptop and downloads a malicious application and installs it, then Dell support gets to deal with that problem. After a while, Dell is going to install some software by default to help with this, and spy on what users have been doing purely so that if they mess up then Dell can help. Eventually this happens enough and Windows gets an app store, and fairly soon after a version of Windows that can only install apps via the app store.

This is not about control for control's sake, or revenue (except saving support costs). This is about protecting people from themselves.

But sure, if Pine can put a big sticker on the phone saying "do not install anything on this phone" and make that legally binding, then they won't need an app store.

Re: PinePhone – Beta Edition Linux SmartPhone Preorder

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not everyone wants their phones commercialized. While your statement is technically correct, the number of users falling into that category, and would go the extra effort to ensure a non-commercialized day to day phone is usable, is infinitesimally small. Most users embrace the convenience associated with the commercial solution. This will be a tiny niche phone

>This will be a tiny niche phone Yes. So what?

He is politely refuting your point. “The commercial app store model does not work, at least not for the user.”

I will be more direct for your benefit.

Not only are you wrong. You’re wrong on a scale so large, 100 years ago the average person had never thought of numbers that high.

Not only is the commercial App Store system working for users, it’s working for billions of them. Billions of humans are cool with it.

Your “open App Store” concept works for so few people, as to hardly be compared in the same breath.

Re: PinePhone – Beta Edition Linux SmartPhone Preorder

#263
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

:shrug: I don't have a bank app installed on my phone right now. And there are absolutely going to be Open Source 2FA apps being built for Pinephone, so I'm good there. Currently, I don't use a banking app because I don't trust my bank to have that level of access to my phone with a proprietary app, and because my bank's app isn't particularly good in the first place. So I'm not really losing out by using Pinephone.…

Let me reply to that by listing existing apps listed on http://appl.ist : - NewPipe > FreeTube, AudioTube - Podcast app/music app > GNOME Podcasts, GPodder/Lollypop, Elisa - Maps > PureMaps, GNOME Maps - AndOTP > Keysmith, GNOME Authenticator, Two-Factor-Keychain, Numberstation - Signal (and/or Matrix) > Axolotl / various, Nheko feels most complete currently - Orgzly > Emacs maybe? - Email > Geary (I still use Evolut…

It should be pointed out, however, that the mapping apps available on the PinePhone are little more than tech demos. Their feature set is vastly smaller than e.g. OSMAnd on Android. For me, even if the PinePhone took over my phone calls, Signal messenging, etc., I would still need to carry around an Android phone for decent maps.

Re: PinePhone – Beta Edition Linux SmartPhone Preorder

#264
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People use iOS/iPhones BECAUSE of how tightly controlled the App Store is. It's like Atari vs Nintendo. If I wanted pure "freedom" I would have gotten an android, since they have at least fixed their performance issues now.

The best of both worlds is possible. I can install $StrictGNULinuxDistro with very strict policies about software freedom and quality and so on; and then if I want to, I can add Flathub, $OtherFlatpakRepo and/or $ThirdPartyDebOrRpmOrWhateverRepo as well. Gatekeeping may be a feature or a bug depending on your opinion, but we don't all have to have the same priorities for our software repos, because we can each choose…

Yeah because flatpacks are a joy to use. /sarc The older I get, the less time I have to fumble around with crappy user interfaces on half assed software. I’m far more willing to pay, or even used closed source software because it gets the job done, and sparks joy.

Re: PinePhone – Beta Edition Linux SmartPhone Preorder

#265
post #220
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People use iOS/iPhones BECAUSE of how tightly controlled the App Store is. It's like Atari vs Nintendo. If I wanted pure "freedom" I would have gotten an android, since they have at least fixed their performance issues now.

No. I used an iPhone for years because it was the only way to participate in iMessage group chats and Android had the same issues iOS had. Most people are using the iPhone because they have no other real choice, giving them freedom would be a good thing put I've personally given up all hope for both the platform and the company that created it.

[deleted]

Re: PinePhone – Beta Edition Linux SmartPhone Preorder

#266

I looks forward to seeing reviews. Offhand, does anyone have a list of closed source drivers this device? It’s not a dealbreaker to me (I use many raspberry pis in my home), but it’s nice to have an inventory.

There is something from LTT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCKMxzz9cjs

LTT is so trash. The specs are all wrong.

They did something similar when testing gaming on linux -- used an unusual distro rather than just use the latest Ubuntu, and then complains about issues that only exist in their chosen distro... no shit.

I have no idea how they got so popular, they always make mistakes like these in their content.

Re: PinePhone – Beta Edition Linux SmartPhone Preorder

#267
post #237
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC, it essentially boils down to: - closed source software running on the LTE modem, - proprietary firmware for the Realtek bluetooth/WiFi chip - optional firmware for camera autofocus.

- optional proprietary firmware on the type-C controller - firmware in the touch controller No closed source drivers in the kernel or userspace though.

What does the optional proprietary firmware on the type-c Controller get you? Just wondering.. I have the convergence mobian edition from ~January that seems to work well out of the box with the included usb-c hub. Does the convergence edition possibly come with that proprietary firmware?

Re: PinePhone – Beta Edition Linux SmartPhone Preorder

#268
post #199

> Size: 5.95 inches I never understood it why it has to be so hard to find a reasonably speced smartphone that fits comfortably in your pocket

newest iPhone SE fits the bill

https://m.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=8292&idPhone2=1...

Thanks, not half bad! And only a tad bigger. If not for the shorter battery life I'd consider switching.

Re: PinePhone – Beta Edition Linux SmartPhone Preorder

#269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PinePhone doesn't need to become a mainstream smartphone to be valuable just like Linux OSes don't need to become mainstream to be valuable.

It certainly does need to become mainstream, just like Linux did. The PinePhone, like its various alternatives, will have to find footing in the marketplace in the same way Linux did: with superior performance for the price. No mobile phone will sell enough to survive by offering low-performance hardware and off-the-shelf software no matter how open it is.

> just like Linux did

I think you and I have very different ideas of what constitutes "mainstream".

> No mobile phone will sell enough to survive by offering low-performance hardware and off-the-shelf software no matter how open it is.

Why?

Re: PinePhone – Beta Edition Linux SmartPhone Preorder

#270
post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get it, I'm all for it. Objectively, it's still a lot of money even for middle class Americans.

you're just lying yourself that you are middle class I see, nothing to be ashamed of to be lower class. I am also lower class. politicians made us this way.

I really appreciate your attitude. And I agree with you.

Allow me, however, to go one step further. You're 'working' class. You're not 'lower' than anybody else.

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