New documentary exposes media consolidation and government collusion • Hacker News Board

Re: New documentary exposes media consolidation and government collusion

#11

Post by rst » Wed, Jun 15, 2011, 1:49 PM UTC

rkalla wrote: post #5

For folks more in-the-know than me on govt/corp history, does the power struggle between the people and controlling entities (wether it be the govt or the corps as we are seeing more recently) ebb and flow? Is this an ebb in out history where we see the balance of power pouring to the corp side of the scale or is this an unprecedented moment in history where we see control in health care, research, internet, communic…

A couple of books on the topic: "The Master Switch" by Tim Wu, and "The Creation of the Media", by Paul Starr.

"The Master Switch" goes through the history of radio, where an initial period of experimentation was stifled by regulation, with big business (the large networks) being the major beneficiary; the two weren't necessarily opposed.

On the other hand, the former will show you that eliminating regulation doesn't necessarily eliminate the problem. In the absence of effective regulation in the 19th century, Western Union seized an effective monopoly on telegraphy. Having done that, they then made a deal for cut rates with the Associated Press whereby AP-affiliated newspapers (effectively, any paper that wanted to cover national stories) were forbidden to editorialize against the monopoly.

Re: New documentary exposes media consolidation and government collusion

#12

Post by rapind » Wed, Jun 15, 2011, 1:50 PM UTC

rkalla wrote: post #5

For folks more in-the-know than me on govt/corp history, does the power struggle between the people and controlling entities (wether it be the govt or the corps as we are seeing more recently) ebb and flow? Is this an ebb in out history where we see the balance of power pouring to the corp side of the scale or is this an unprecedented moment in history where we see control in health care, research, internet, communic…

Since about the mid 1970s deregulation has been consistent. This empowers corporations to sort of do whatever they want so long as the free market justifies their behaviour. The point of view that regulation is a bad thing, and de-regulation is a good thing, has become increasingly popular, even being taught in schools.

In a publicly traded company it's practically illegal not to seek out any unfair or immoral advantage that may increase your share value. Being moral is not often in the best interest of your investors, at least not in the short term.

If you accept this as truth, then it kind of makes sense that large corporations lobby various governments to pass bills that directly or indirectly increase their share value regardless of the consequences. This is so profitable that over time this leads to massive deregulation and government corruption as companies try anything and everything to influence government leaders (or put their own people in these influencial positions). It's pretty blatent and not uncommon for a regulator later taking a job with a large corporation they were in charge of overseeing. In some fields it's an accepted and commonly known career path.

So I wouldn't say it's us against them or anything crazy. It just so happens that the interests of most corporations do not align with society in general's long term interests.

The problem with regulation is that it's subject to corruption than can produce fairly large consequences for society. It usually takes a while before a government body has been properly infiltrated (say 15 years or so?).

The problem with deregulation is it assumes corporation interests are often aligned with societies interests. That's simply not true the majority of the time.

Re: New documentary exposes media consolidation and government collusion

#13

Post by tomjen3 » Wed, Jun 15, 2011, 2:10 PM UTC

rkalla wrote: post #5

For folks more in-the-know than me on govt/corp history, does the power struggle between the people and controlling entities (wether it be the govt or the corps as we are seeing more recently) ebb and flow? Is this an ebb in out history where we see the balance of power pouring to the corp side of the scale or is this an unprecedented moment in history where we see control in health care, research, internet, communic…

In some sense they have less power today than they ever had - imagine the outcry if some senator raped a commoner today. Compare that with what would have happened if a lord raped a peasant 800 years ago. It is likely that the peasant would have been killed for insulting the lord.

On the other hand, modern technology has done much to erode privacy for the common people and since information is power, some of the lost power has been returned to the rulers.

What is really exciting is the future - I am not at all convinced that the current nation states can survive in their present form when they loose the ability to tax their most productive citizens (since more and more work can be done overseas) as much as they have done and when something like bitcoin can and will be used to do transactions between people.

Re: New documentary exposes media consolidation and government collusion

#14

Post by Chris_Dollar » Wed, Jun 15, 2011, 2:22 PM UTC

ColinWright wrote: post #10

Interesting how on one hand people are claiming that the government is colluding to create internet censorship, and on the other hand the government is sponsoring a device to help circumvent internet censorship: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2651245 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2652169 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2656074 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2656816 Left hand? Right hand? What will…

Very interesting, Colin.

Our central premise in #killswitch - the documentary, is that decentralization of knowledge is essential for democracy.

The Printing Press gave society this during the enlightenment period, halting centuries of oppression in the Western World. And the Internet is doing this today by revitalizing democracies in the Western world and helping ignite revolution in the Middle East.

We advocate a Constitutional framework that protects the integrity of the Internet. i.e. a separations principle, whereby content providers should not be ISP's and vice versa. (Detailed account of this in Tim Wu's, "Master Switch").

We are averse to any "Big Brother" Regulation by the Government or "Brave New World" Corporate take-over of the Internet.

The only way to combat oppression is to have accountable governance is to have decentralization of info/knowledge.

One of a demcocracy's central purposes is to protect this decentralized and accountable framework (by protecting the decentralized integrity of the Internet).

One way the gov. can do this by enforcing the 1st Amendment, i.e. Freedom of the Press and Freedom of Speech. But the gov. won't do this with out an aware and educated citizenry. Which is why we're making the documentary.

Check out our trailer on kickstarter when you get a chance: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/akorn/killswitch-a-docum...

  (for a detailed account of how our founding father's expressed the difference between Freedom of the Press and Freedom of Speech, check out Robert McChesney's  "The Death and Life of American Journalism")

Re: New documentary exposes media consolidation and government collusion

#15

Post by Chris_Dollar » Wed, Jun 15, 2011, 6:58 PM UTC

rst wrote: post #11

rkalla wrote: post #5

For folks more in-the-know than me on govt/corp history, does the power struggle between the people and controlling entities (wether it be the govt or the corps as we are seeing more recently) ebb and flow? Is this an ebb in out history where we see the balance of power pouring to the corp side of the scale or is this an unprecedented moment in history where we see control in health care, research, internet, communic…

A couple of books on the topic: "The Master Switch" by Tim Wu, and "The Creation of the Media", by Paul Starr. "The Master Switch" goes through the history of radio, where an initial period of experimentation was stifled by regulation, with big business (the large networks) being the major beneficiary; the two weren't necessarily opposed. On the other hand, the former will show you that eliminating regulation doesn't…

Hi rst:

You're right, "Master Switch" is a great book. It has influenced me in the writing of #killswitch.

Link to #killswitch project: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/akorn/killswitch-a-docum...

I have not read "The Creation of the Media", by Paul Starr. What can you tell me about that book?

Re: New documentary exposes media consolidation and government collusion

#16

Post by gnosis » Fri, Jun 17, 2011, 7:47 PM UTC

Vic-nyc wrote: post #4

This would be a very interesting and timely movie, since we're approaching a cycle when conglomerates are, once again, consolidating into ever-bigger entities. (think AT&T trying to buy T-mobile as a small example). I would also recommend Tim Wu's book "The Master Switch" that discusses media monopolies in the U.S. in historical perspective, from the telegraph and early telephone on to movie studios and on to the Int…

"The origination of the Internet itself, the book explains, is a direct result of the splitting of AT&T in 1984, which allowed, for example the standard modem jack to exist (jacks and equipment were proprietary before that)"

The earliest modems didn't use phone jacks at all:

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Acoustic_coup...