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'Do Not Split': A Hong Kong protest film [video]

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Re: 'Do Not Split': A Hong Kong protest film [video]

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It's not a criticism, but a praise. Political stabilitiy is of immense value to everybody. US is doing it correctly as the track record shows. No revolutions while other countries had multiple in the same timespan. I might sound a bit cynical but I prefer to think about this as non-idealistic. Because reality very rarely seems to align with any sort of idealism for me.

The framing is cynical, though I agree with you that stability is valuable.

I'd argue the reason the framing is cynical is because the two party system wasn't intentionally crafted as some sort of 'nothing changes' power structure, but is the outcome from the current incentives of our democratic system. The two parties bit is arguably a flaw the founders tried unsuccessfully to prevent (because it can lead to instability).

Your comment also implies that little changes as the parties switch power back and forth, but this isn't true. Policy is a large ship and things take time and arguing to change (which is what you want for stability, and the inevitable outcome in a democracy). But policy does change and decade over decade - things can change a lot as people struggle to improve the society.

You can read Washington's explicit warnings of political parties in his farewell address (which presciently aligns a lot with the rise of Trump): https://www.ourdocuments.gov/doc.php?flash=false&doc=15&page...

Relevant bit:

"I have already intimated to you the danger of parties in the State, with particular reference to the founding of them on geographical discriminations. Let me now take a more comprehensive view, and warn you in the most solemn manner against the baneful effects of the spirit of party generally.

This spirit, unfortunately, is inseparable from our nature, having its root in the strongest passions of the human mind. It exists under different shapes in all governments, more or less stifled, controlled, or repressed; but, in those of the popular form, it is seen in its greatest rankness, and is truly their worst enemy.

The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries which result gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of public liberty.

Without looking forward to an extremity of this kind (which nevertheless ought not to be entirely out of sight), the common and continual mischiefs of the spirit of party are sufficient to make it the interest and duty of a wise people to discourage and restrain it.

It serves always to distract the public councils and enfeeble the public administration. It agitates the community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms, kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally riot and insurrection. It opens the door to foreign influence and corruption, which finds a facilitated access to the government itself through the channels of party passions. Thus the policy and the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another.

There is an opinion that parties in free countries are useful checks upon the administration of the government and serve to keep alive the spirit of liberty. This within certain limits is probably true; and in governments of a monarchical cast, patriotism may look with indulgence, if not with favor, upon the spirit of party. But in those of the popular character, in governments purely elective, it is a spirit not to be encouraged. From their natural tendency, it is certain there will always be enough of that spirit for every salutary purpose. And there being constant danger of excess, the effort ought to be by force of public opinion, to mitigate and assuage it. A fire not to be quenched, it demands a uniform vigilance to prevent its bursting into a flame, lest, instead of warming, it should consume."

Re: 'Do Not Split': A Hong Kong protest film [video]

#162

The CPC propaganda department has ordered its local media to stagger the Oscars this year and downplay the event because this documentary short was nominated. https://variety.com/2021/film/asia/china-tells-media-stagger... I watched it recently and thought it didn't go nearly far enough in highlighting the abuses by the HK police, and even glossed over or omitted some very important events that triggered the continue…

I mean they censored Winnie the Pooh because of light hearted comparisons between Pooh and Xi (that were arguably positive). [0][1] Once you're doing that, pretty much anything is going to clear that bar. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xi_Jinping#Censorship [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Band_in_China

I'm really skeptical that's true.... Winnie the Pooh is such a popular theme in products in China, I've never heard anything remotely close to such a ban....

Re: 'Do Not Split': A Hong Kong protest film [video]

#163
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"To an American's ear, the CCP's use is an Orwellian inversion akin to "Freedom is Slavery" Frankly speaking the US is not the only country in the world and in this context why would other countries give a f..k about how it sounds to America's ear. They could be backwards in relation to western view on human rights but you can't really tell independent country how they do their things.

> Frankly speaking the US is not the only country in the world and in this context why would other countries give a f..k about how it sounds to America's ear. Undemocratic governments like China's don't , except to muddy the waters and troll.

If you think that "democratic" countries do not troll and muddy waters I have a bridge to sell.

Re: 'Do Not Split': A Hong Kong protest film [video]

#164
post #129
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were the (VC) based in HK? Just wondering.

Yes. However there are now Americans who are touting the same propaganda. It's frightening to see how greed easily corrupts them. They are on HN right now reading my comments.

If you dont mind sharing the name of the VC? Email in my profile.

Re: 'Do Not Split': A Hong Kong protest film [video]

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

which party do I vote for if I want to stop US imperialism? which party do I vote for if I want MFA? Its not the Republicans, and its definitely not the Democrats. Its no conspiracy theory to say the duopoly shuts down a lot of issues from being ever being addressed

Why are there no US political parties advocating for the dissolution of the US?

Re: 'Do Not Split': A Hong Kong protest film [video]

#166
post #98

[flagged]

Can you please help me understand what is written in (mandarin?) above? Is it just a translation of the same?

In order:

1. Free Hong Kong, revolution of our times

2. Hong Kong people, add oil (basically a statement of encouragement)

3. Five demands, not one less

4. There are no rioters, only tyranny

5. The Hong Kong Police know the law, yet break the law (I haven't seen this one around in many English-speaking circles so I can't really give an accurate translation from the eyes of HKers)

These were basically the slogans used by the protestors back in 2019. Unfortunately, saying any of these is now considered an "act of sedition" by the Hong Kong government, after the passing of the National Security Law last year.

Re: 'Do Not Split': A Hong Kong protest film [video]

#167
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got to say it's kind of fascinating seeing CCP talking points regurgitated on HN.

How is this a CCP talking point? If anything, the fact that Western HN commenters can't differentiate Hong Kong and the CCP actually paints the CCP as less violent than they actually are.

> the fact that Western HN commenters can't differentiate Hong Kong and the CCP

This is not a fact. Do you have a citation?

edit: it's also a pretty vague statement that could be satisfied by finding any two people who "can't differentiate" between HK and the CCP. You didn't say "the majority of Western HN commenters".

Re: 'Do Not Split': A Hong Kong protest film [video]

#168

The CPC propaganda department has ordered its local media to stagger the Oscars this year and downplay the event because this documentary short was nominated. https://variety.com/2021/film/asia/china-tells-media-stagger... I watched it recently and thought it didn't go nearly far enough in highlighting the abuses by the HK police, and even glossed over or omitted some very important events that triggered the continue…

> The fragility of the CPC and its fear in being portrayed in any negative light knows no limits. That's because they have single party system. Eventually they'll figure out that splitting into two parties and exchanging highest power between the two every few years while still colectively controlling everything of value is way more resilient system. Then they will be able to let themselves to be hated because half o…

> splitting into two parties and exchanging highest power between the two every few years ... is way more resilient system.

I am not so sure of that. Doesn't this lead to what some call the polarization of the public? Time will tell how this one plays out.

Re: 'Do Not Split': A Hong Kong protest film [video]

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Hong Kong it was a revolution. They weren't fighting for ambiguous policy change, they were fighting for independence.

If you listen to them, they say they're not separatists... But if they were that's all the more reason for there to be criminal penalties for their actions. And you better hope the same happens in the US when the FBI goes after the "Boogaloo Boys."

You need to get recalibrated. 25% of the people of HK were involved in protests in some form or the other.

Boogaloo Boys do not consist of 80 million US citizens. They're a fringe group trying to be a militia. HK citizens were violent because their voices were not heard, they're not a militia, nor are they fighting to oppress and upend democracy, they're fighting for the exact opposite.

Re: 'Do Not Split': A Hong Kong protest film [video]

#170
post #44

I'll try to strictly source my remarks and refrain from commenting on the political content of the HK demonstrations to keep this purely factual, as I think this could be a rather controversial thread; however, it's interesting how different the reception to these demonstrations is to the reception to the US Capitol riots and the BLM demonstrations of last year. Hong Kong demonstrators have stormed government buildin…

The HK government is in no way any semblance of democratically elected. The majority power in all branches of government lies with Beijing appointees.
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