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They Just Moved to Austin. Now They Want to End One of Its Traditions

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Re: They Just Moved to Austin. Now They Want to End One of Its Traditions

#391

Post by clipradiowallet »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #387
clipradiowallet wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What if government policy for the last few decades had been to keep housing as affordable as possible. > So if average rent in a city started increasing, the government would make sure new apartments and got built and/or expanded roads and public transit How? Should they...raise taxes? Subsidize housing(and pay for it by raising taxes)? Take from the people who produce much, and give to the people who produce less?…

If rents start increasing, then investors will build new housing. All the city has to do is approve the permits. >Take from the people who produce much, and give to the people who produce less? Maybe? Depends if you want to avoid this situation: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/77/8f/07/778f07ec78b997b4f218...

Is this difficult, getting approval? I don't live in a large city where the idea of building permits really comes into mind, so I don't have much experience in what could be involved there.

For some contrast, I live in the "rural" US, my home is surrounded on 4 sides by farm fields as far as you can see. This is like peering into an alien bureaucracy for me.

Re: They Just Moved to Austin. Now They Want to End One of Its Traditions

#392

Post by int_19h »

chrisco255 wrote: post #133
dimgl wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is really depressing... It's like there's no escaping this type of mentality anywhere in the U.S. I'm currently in the process of leaving California. I won't miss it at all I'm afraid.

There is, just don't move to urban areas if you want to avoid it.

The problem is that the urban areas move (or rather spread), and eventually encroach on the surrounding countryside.

Re: They Just Moved to Austin. Now They Want to End One of Its Traditions

#393

Post by chmod600 »

howinator wrote: post #378
chmod600 wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"They moved into a community and it’s their job to integrate with the community." Is that a broadly-accepted opinion? Does it apply consistently to all cultures -- e.g. does it apply when nonwhites move into a white area? And, does it reflect reality? Do new populations really preserve the prexisting culture in practice?

This is way more nuanced than a HN comment could ever express, but my opinion is that this situation is a two-way street. The people moving in need to adapt to the neighborhood while the long-term residents need to adapt to the changes happening around them. The key though is that it needs to be a smooth, fluid transition that involves gives and takes on both sides. I don't think calling the cops and asking them to "…

I agree that it's a "two-way street"; but that seems to contradict your initial language was that it was "[the newcomers'] job to integrate".

Re: They Just Moved to Austin. Now They Want to End One of Its Traditions

#394

Post by sneak »

chao- wrote: post #363
sneak wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you wouldn't come back with a gun yourself to resolve the issue, it's a dick move to call someone else (a cop) to come over with a gun. If you're making phone calls for armed response because someone is playing music, the problem might be with you.

Saying "be prepared to pull a gun, or don't ask your neighbor for anything" seems like a false dichotomy. Isn't that the very reason societies develop laws and governments? To not have people using violence to get their way? Instead agree to follow a code, and standards, and to not adjudicate transgressions of those codes with individual-on-individual violence?

I didn't say anything about pulling a gun, just that if you aren't willing to arm yourself and re-engage, it is a dick move to call someone else armed to come over and do it for you.

It has nothing to do with violence. The correct move is obviously to not re-engage, personally or by proxy.

> Isn't that the very reason societies develop laws and governments? To not have people using violence to get their way?

Quite the opposite. Laws are enforced exclusively via threat of violence, and the only thing that distinguishes the government from any other leadership organization is a claim to legitimate use of violence.

Re: They Just Moved to Austin. Now They Want to End One of Its Traditions

#395

Post by microtherion »

protomyth wrote: post #343

Ask any farmer when folks move into the area expecting some Disney version of farm country and get the reality of it. Its amazing how many complaints can be generated.

The classical Swiss variation of this is the urbanites moving into the countryside and telling the farmers to get rid of the cowbells.

TBH, the farmers don't have much except tradition on their side; there is no practical reason for the bells outside the mountains, and research has come to the conclusion that they are not overly healthy for the cows.

Plus it was generally the farmers who sold the urbanites the land to build their houses on.

And for an urban variation: People who move next to a church and want it to stop ringing its bells so often.

Re: They Just Moved to Austin. Now They Want to End One of Its Traditions

#396

Post by danaliv »

chii wrote: post #137
unethical_ban wrote: post #35

Note that ownership is supplanted by rentership. I like urban density, but renting is extraction of wealth rather than a one-time transfer. I wish more of these developments were condos/ownership/co-op/what have you.

> renting is extraction of wealth rather than a one-time transfer. why is that? Renting is merely paying for shelter. The purchase price of a property would match rentals when adjusted for the cost of the capital to purchase (aka, interest payments, lost opportunity cost of capital etc). The only thing rentals lack is certainty - you cannot get kicked out of your owned home, but could for a rental (even with enough n…

Rentals lack equity, which is kind of an enormous thing to overlook.

Re: They Just Moved to Austin. Now They Want to End One of Its Traditions

#397

Post by shoemakersteve »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #375
bobthechef wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sowing artificial conflict among the plebes is a tried and true technique.

The surprising thing to me is that in previous eras the plebes didn’t have access to data or education or literacy to maybe realize this, but what is the plebe’s excuse nowadays? Only one I can come up with is many of the plebe’s think they’re eventually going to not be plebes.

Because while the plebes have access to data, a lot of that data is biased, misleading, or it isn't and they've been convinced that it is.

Re: They Just Moved to Austin. Now They Want to End One of Its Traditions

#398

Post by rajin444 »

harles wrote: post #309
chmod600 wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"They moved into a community and it’s their job to integrate with the community." Is that a broadly-accepted opinion? Does it apply consistently to all cultures -- e.g. does it apply when nonwhites move into a white area? And, does it reflect reality? Do new populations really preserve the prexisting culture in practice?

Requiring cultural integration is a slippery slope.

Yeah, you might end up with class solidarity and move past racial divisions.

Re: They Just Moved to Austin. Now They Want to End One of Its Traditions

#399

Post by jdhzzz »

burnte wrote: post #380
chmod600 wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"They moved into a community and it’s their job to integrate with the community." Is that a broadly-accepted opinion? Does it apply consistently to all cultures -- e.g. does it apply when nonwhites move into a white area? And, does it reflect reality? Do new populations really preserve the prexisting culture in practice?

You don't get to complain about the smell of manure if you move in right next to a farm. Know what you're getting into when you move, don't expect the surrounding community to change to suit you, regardless of race.

Haha, I remember this coming up 45 years ago. One of my teachers mentioned that as the nearby suburbs encroached on farm country, it only took a short while until those moving in complained about the smell of their farm neighbors. They tried to get them zoned out of existence.

So, yes, people move into farmland and immediately complain that "Somebody's got to do something about the smell."

Re: They Just Moved to Austin. Now They Want to End One of Its Traditions

#400

Post by valeness »

donatj wrote: post #222
dionidium wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Heck, my upstairs neighbor complained about my music on the weekend during the day without introducing themselves and not diplomatically. Tangential (and probably just a perennial old guy complaint), but it seems like people have forgotten how to do this. If you have an issue with something your neighbor is doing, then go talk to them . Don't leave an aggressive note. Don't let it boil over until you're so upset yo…

Honestly I think the loss of humans just talking to others is the primary cause of most of our modern problems.

What makes you think that there has been a recent loss of "humans just talking"? Seems like a fairly subjective position to take when I, as a younger person, feel incredibly connected to a lot of society via online communication.

I have also however, never had a good experience knocking on neighbors doors. If someone is being incredibly inconsiderate, like say blasting music at 1am, then why would they be more considerate if I knocked on their door?

A fully grown adult living in an apartment complex should be able to know that sound travels, they have already made the decision to be inconsiderate. Are they supposed to change their mind because I appeal to them face to face?

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