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They Just Moved to Austin. Now They Want to End One of Its Traditions

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Re: They Just Moved to Austin. Now They Want to End One of Its Traditions

#361

Post by clipradiowallet »

howinator wrote: post #238

I live in this neighborhood, about three blocks north of where the car club meets. I’m white. I’m a homeowner. You get the picture. Honestly, these people complaining in Weaver sound insane. They moved into a community and it’s their job to integrate with the community. We have a Brit who lives on my street that does community organizing and he’s been wonderful about building a sense of community that integrates the…

> Also, doing burnouts and donuts on public streets

That bit "on public streets" is material - that makes it illegal. Calling the police is the normal course of action there, right?

Re: They Just Moved to Austin. Now They Want to End One of Its Traditions

#362

Post by hindsightbias »

jeegsy wrote: post #327
sjg007 wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Texans could, you know, opt for income taxes in lieu of property taxes.

No Thanks!

Y'all will when enough of you get old enough and can't pay your property tax on retirement.

78704 is in your future too.

Re: They Just Moved to Austin. Now They Want to End One of Its Traditions

#363

Post by chao- »

sneak wrote: post #297
wl wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The risk of a confrontation escalating makes dealing with such things myself a very unattractive option, especially if it's a stranger. I've had a simple, polite request to turn down the thumping music at 1 AM end with me blocking punches, retreating to my unit, and calling the cops. Better to leave it to people who do such things professionally.

If you wouldn't come back with a gun yourself to resolve the issue, it's a dick move to call someone else (a cop) to come over with a gun. If you're making phone calls for armed response because someone is playing music, the problem might be with you.

Saying "be prepared to pull a gun, or don't ask your neighbor for anything" seems like a false dichotomy. Isn't that the very reason societies develop laws and governments? To not have people using violence to get their way? Instead agree to follow a code, and standards, and to not adjudicate transgressions of those codes with individual-on-individual violence?

Re: They Just Moved to Austin. Now They Want to End One of Its Traditions

#364

Post by mindslight »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #347
mindslight wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In this particular instance I find myself asking why it matters that the Weaver residents were originally not from Austin. If you’re born in Chicago, shouldn’t you still have the same rights as someone who was born in Austin? Not necessarily. It's not about where you're born, but about whether you've been somewhere long enough to be part of its community. You have the same natural rights, obviously. But not the sam…

> Going with the principle of live and let live, when you visit or move to some place with a different culture, it's on you to fit in. Live and let live works for small things where there is no material effect on others, such as your spouse’s ethnicity or gender. For matters affecting others, such as noise, pollution, etc. live and let live is not applicable. For all of those matters, the ultimate force is might make…

Things like noise are exactly what I was referencing by the local culture.

My point in invoking live and let live is that things like noise do not matter when you are far enough away. So different communities can exist with different norms regarding noise (or yard maintenance, farm smells, etc), and that is a good thing.

When someone used to one type of community moves into a different type, it falls to the person moving to accept the culture of where they're moving to. So for example it's unreasonable for someone who gets up early for work to move into a building full of college students, and then complain about the late night parties.

The alternative is to insist that there is one "right" culture, presumably yours, and to demand that everyone else conform to it. This is wrong.

Re: They Just Moved to Austin. Now They Want to End One of Its Traditions

#365

Post by wing-_-nuts »

sneak wrote: post #297
wl wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The risk of a confrontation escalating makes dealing with such things myself a very unattractive option, especially if it's a stranger. I've had a simple, polite request to turn down the thumping music at 1 AM end with me blocking punches, retreating to my unit, and calling the cops. Better to leave it to people who do such things professionally.

If you wouldn't come back with a gun yourself to resolve the issue, it's a dick move to call someone else (a cop) to come over with a gun. If you're making phone calls for armed response because someone is playing music, the problem might be with you.

This is one of the most insane comments I've seen on hacker news. Police are there to enforce the law. The only reason they have guns is to defend themselves or the lives of others. If I ask you to turn down your music at night, and you refuse, it's not legal for me to enforce noise ordinances myself, so I call the people who do such things for a living.

Re: They Just Moved to Austin. Now They Want to End One of Its Traditions

#366

Post by xyzzy21 »

howinator wrote: post #238

I live in this neighborhood, about three blocks north of where the car club meets. I’m white. I’m a homeowner. You get the picture. Honestly, these people complaining in Weaver sound insane. They moved into a community and it’s their job to integrate with the community. We have a Brit who lives on my street that does community organizing and he’s been wonderful about building a sense of community that integrates the…

Honestly they are bigots. The left in California and SF Bay Area frequently are (I grew up among them in Marin and Berkeley - their hypocrisy has been obvious since my teens and I've always despised it!)

The trend towards authoritarianism is all too familiar as well.

I've never understood not just joining in and talking. But that's Karens for you!

But I also have never had a problem with hanging out with local folks in Oakland and East SJ when I lived in SV despite being lily white and sticking out like a sore thumb. They have a lot to offer and you have to wade in and respect the differences.

But then plenty of techies think these are "scary places" - most because THEY make them scary by how they act.

Re: They Just Moved to Austin. Now They Want to End One of Its Traditions

#367

Post by hindsightbias »

adjkant wrote: post #94
vorpalhex wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about the people who own houses? For all their faults, those houses were affordable and many residents owned them. Now they've been forced out by increased property taxes. Those luxury buildings are going exclusively into poor neighborhoods because they have the cheapest land and least restrictions.

I don't see where I say anything about those, you might be assuming things here. The whole point is to maintain many of those houses affordability and current residents. If done right, property taxes should not increase significantly, and the local government has the levers to ensure that if they make it a priority. > Those luxury buildings are going exclusively into poor neighborhoods because they have the cheapest…

For many in SF, they should imagine a Fillmore district with ~3000 more Victorians. Because that's what got bulldozed by enlightenment.

https://hoodline.com/2016/01/how-urban-renewal-destroyed-the...

Re: They Just Moved to Austin. Now They Want to End One of Its Traditions

#368

Post by clipradiowallet »

spaced-out wrote: post #237
lotsofpulp wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The system we have created around real estate and home ownership is optimized to erode culture and atomize community. We like to pretend that this is somehow inevitable, the will of the market, but we need to own it - this is the world we have built for ourselves. How is it not the will of the market? I don’t see any option other than to limit people’s freedom to move about the city/state/country.

What's pushing people out is the rising cost of property, caused by more and more money bidding for less space. If the government had done more to create more space, prices would not have risen so dramatically. What if government policy for the last few decades had been to keep housing as affordable as possible. So if average rent in a city started increasing, the government would make sure new apartments and got bui…

> What if government policy for the last few decades had been to keep housing as affordable as possible.

> So if average rent in a city started increasing, the government would make sure new apartments and got built and/or expanded roads and public transit

How? Should they...raise taxes? Subsidize housing(and pay for it by raising taxes)? Take from the people who produce much, and give to the people who produce less? I'm not implying it's right or wrong, I'm genuinely curious as to "how" government should go about accomplishing that goal.

Re: They Just Moved to Austin. Now They Want to End One of Its Traditions

#369

Post by treis »

fatnoah wrote: post #320
treis wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The asshole blaring music and doing burnouts is very unlikely to respond positively to a suggestion they stop doing that. If they were reasonable people and considerate of others they wouldn't be doing that in the first place. I suspect that if you polled the long term residents of the area they would have similar negative perceptions of the car club. It's just that they don't have the power to effect change or don't…

>The asshole blaring music and doing burnouts is very unlikely to respond positively to a suggestion they stop doing that. If they were reasonable people and considerate of others they wouldn't be doing that in the first place. You'd be surprised just how oblivious people are. I lived in an apartment building where a fire escape connected my bedroom window to another window that faced min about 7 feet away. People in…

Yeah but these people are going through great effort and expense to be annoying. They're not likely to change. And indeed, TFA shows that they're well aware of the problem and have no plans to change.

Re: They Just Moved to Austin. Now They Want to End One of Its Traditions

#370

Post by clipradiowallet »

brightball wrote: post #184
Bukhmanizer wrote: post #86

There are ways that people talk about gentrification that always makes me slightly uncomfortable. As a non-white person, something always feels like gentrification is something that “good” white people like to blame “bad” white people for doing, when the real problem tends to be wider and more systemic. In this particular instance I find myself asking why it matters that the Weaver residents were originally not from…

> However it doesn’t mean anyone has to listen to you. IMO this is the lesson that a lot of people never seem to learn.

If the offenders are violating legal constructs(like noise ordinances, traffic safety laws, littering ordinances)...they don't have to listen to you, because you aren't the entity that enforces the laws. Your time is better spent contacting the entity that enforces the laws, and encouraging them to do their job.
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