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Venus could have been habitable for billions of years (2019)

smithsonianmag.com

211–220 of 236 posts

Re: Venus could have been habitable for billions of years (2019)

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is hydrogen on Venus. Very little. Some hydrogen chloride and hydrogen fluoride.

I'm just gonna leave this here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_atmosphere Hydrogen chloride 0.1–0.6 ppm Hydrogen fluoride 0.001–0.005 ppm

Like I said, it's very little, but that's not none.

Re: Venus could have been habitable for billions of years (2019)

#212
post #173

Do you think there could be more landings on Venus like the Russian one in the 1960s? How did the Russian probe even land and take a photo if the surface temperature is enough to melt metal?! Could you build a small rover to withstand the elements for a few hours?

It lasted what, 8 seconds before transmission ceased? It was definitely a success since they expected it to last about 5 seconds.

You're probably joking, but I'll post this comment anyway, as the Venera program was actually quite impressive.

Venera 7 lasted 23 minutes before failing (although landed in an awkward orientation due to parachute failure).

Venera 8 transmission for nearly an hour, but wasn't equipped with a camera.

Venera 9 operated for 53 minutes, had issues with the lens cap so only took pictures from one of the cameras.

Venera 10 operated for 65 minutes, same lens cap issue as above.

Venera 11 operated for 95 minutes, and Venera 12 operated for 110 minutes. Neither of these successfully released their lens caps.

Venera 13 managed 127 minutes, and both lens caps deployed.

Venera 14 which had the same design as Venera 13 only lasted for 57 minutes. Its lens caps deployed, but one landed directly underneath the surface compressibility tester arm, and returned information for the compressibility of the lens cap rather than the surface.

Re: Venus could have been habitable for billions of years (2019)

#213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, that's... actually pretty sensical. The science part of me rejects it for having no evidence. But the pragmatic part of me would put its money underneath the theory. The reason The bigger question is: how did the first Protozoa form? The usual primordial soup theory of random chance? One good thing about this theory is that if there are 10^7 habitable planets at any given moment, each of them are "trying to prod…

If we work under this assumption, then I’d expect all the living material out there to be of the same chemistry and origin - again unproven conjecture but I’ll be surprised if two life forms of completely different chemistries can compete on comparable levels in the same environment - one will probably always be more efficient than other due to fundamental limits on the chemistry of their constituent molecules; I fee…

If all the environments are made of rocks and water (and therefore oxygen and hydrogen atmosphere) then chemically you've got enough for converting sunlight to power, surely?

Re: Venus could have been habitable for billions of years (2019)

#214
post #7

Growing up I absorbed all the space stuff I could find. But it wasn't until recently that I realized that the solar system didn't just form into some static natural state where it largely didn't change until say the sun was finished with it's lifespan. Rather it evolves, changes, planets are habitable, then not, moons are formed and break up, even frozen planets are geologically active and are changing, Saturn's ring…

Highly recommend anyone to look into Oceanography! The ocean floors reveal a lot of ancient geological history and the Earth is much more dynamic than what meets the eye. Sea floor spreading, plate tectonics, and much more can be studied simply by observing the ocean floor!

Re: Venus could have been habitable for billions of years (2019)

#215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And it could be again... It could. On the other hand Earth could become the next Venus, if climate change runs out of control. No?

No. For one, Earth is much further away. But most importantly, we have no clue if our current carbon levels are any sort of maxima in regards to what the planet can handle. We just have our own little recent industrialized history, and some charts about the past that are, at best, educated guesses. As George Carlin would say, "The planet will shake us off like a bad cold" Climate change is more important for our spec…

> But most importantly, we have no clue if our current carbon levels are any sort of maxima in regards to what the planet can handle. We just have our own little recent industrialized history, and some charts about the past that are, at best, educated guesses.

The article mentions massive amounts of C02 released 500 million years ago by volcanic activity in the Siberian Traps. The dinosaurs evolved on an Earth with six times the amount of C02 in the atmosphere we have today. So we're nowhere near a maxima. It's just a question of how difficult climate change will be for our civilization and parts of the biosphere we rely on.

Re: Venus could have been habitable for billions of years (2019)

#216
post #7

Growing up I absorbed all the space stuff I could find. But it wasn't until recently that I realized that the solar system didn't just form into some static natural state where it largely didn't change until say the sun was finished with it's lifespan. Rather it evolves, changes, planets are habitable, then not, moons are formed and break up, even frozen planets are geologically active and are changing, Saturn's ring…

A lot of things we think are static do actually change quite a bit. Tiny changes add up to a lot over time. I once buried a little canister with some money inside (in a shallow hole next to a distinctive tree) in the woods while hiking, just to see if anyone would find it. I came back a couple months later, took me a very long time to find, I did eventually, and it was much, much deeper than I had buried it. The soil must have shifted way more than I thought it would in that short period of time but it's not something you would ever notice from day to day.

Re: Venus could have been habitable for billions of years (2019)

#217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm just gonna leave this here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_atmosphere Hydrogen chloride 0.1–0.6 ppm Hydrogen fluoride 0.001–0.005 ppm

Like I said, it's very little, but that's not none.

It's none :D

If you knew anything about chemistry past checking wikipedia, you'd just call it none.

Re: Venus could have been habitable for billions of years (2019)

#218
post #33

Maybe they crashed their huge spaceship on Earth and killed the dinosaurs. Two of them survived and started gardening.

I love thinking about an alternate reality where Mars and Venus swapped orbits so that both were habitable.

Having three planets with their own unique plants and animals, and having colonization by humans at our current tech level, is a fascinating alternate reality.

Re: Venus could have been habitable for billions of years (2019)

#219
post #33

Maybe they crashed their huge spaceship on Earth and killed the dinosaurs. Two of them survived and started gardening.

I love thinking about an alternate reality where Mars and Venus swapped orbits so that both were habitable. Having three planets with their own unique plants and animals, and having colonization by humans at our current tech level, is a fascinating alternate reality.

All we need to do is build a Stargate on each and have them swap atmospheres!

Re: Venus could have been habitable for billions of years (2019)

#220
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering the industrial revolution had been in full swing for a century before the use of fossil fuels became widespread I think you make a poor argument. Just because we were the first doesn't mean we'll be the last. A billion years is a very very very long time, and there are multiple billions of years in the Earth's future.

The industrial revolution's beginning is defined by coal mining and the steam engine. I don't understand what you mean about it having been in full swing for a century before that.

The riverfront up and down the Jones Falls in Baltimore is littered with "mills" or factories, which are located there because they needed water power. My understanding is that real industrialization got started with things like the Arkwright water frame, and then the steam engine allowed factories to spread to more convenient locations.
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