PinePhone – Beta Edition Linux SmartPhone Preorder • Hacker News Board

Re: PinePhone – Beta Edition Linux SmartPhone Preorder

#71

Post by fallat » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 2:11 PM UTC

Luker88 wrote: post #47

wwarner wrote: post #20

I personally think that the effort to create open source phones is the single most important technology project going on out there. We have open source browsers, we have open source social apps, but we definitely do not have open source phones. Phones that can be truly owned and controlled by users will reshape the privacy discourse, from one of complaining and legal coercion, to one of choices and markets.

Last month they even managed to fully open parts of the modem, and do calls without the closed blob for the firmware! https://twitter.com/biktorgj/status/1357217053745250304 (edit: caveat: they might not be able to actually ship the firmware since laws on this are very strict basically everywhere) The app store(s) is a bit of a problem, but in time it might be solved. Not a big problem for me.... But I'd also like to…

There are so many issues I see blocked by banks for reason or another. This is another one I never thought of. The other big one is existing loans preventing cryptocurrency adoption.

Re: PinePhone – Beta Edition Linux SmartPhone Preorder

#72

Post by fsflover » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 2:11 PM UTC

aroman wrote: post #61

zepto wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no reason it can’t break the ‘duopoly’. It clearly isn’t going to do so overnight or in a year or two. But it easily could over the 5-10 year timeline. A distributed App Store plus an experience that is more attuned to the needs of users than iOS or Android can accomplish that. To solve the ‘bank’ problem all it needs to do is provide a really solid PWA story. What it shouldn’t do is provide Android compatib…

> plus an experience that is more attuned to the needs of users than iOS or Android can accomplish that. Why would this project be more effective at doing this than iOS or Android? I don’t see why people other than ideological technologists would want to use this phone. To be clear, I think it’d be great if they did, but I think you’re massively understating the difficulty of challenging iOS and Android. Many compani…

> I don’t see why people other than ideological technologists would want to use this phone.

AFAIK every single change in tech starts from such people.

Re: PinePhone – Beta Edition Linux SmartPhone Preorder

#73

Post by ascendantlogic » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 2:12 PM UTC

viro wrote: post #68

wwarner wrote: post #20

I personally think that the effort to create open source phones is the single most important technology project going on out there. We have open source browsers, we have open source social apps, but we definitely do not have open source phones. Phones that can be truly owned and controlled by users will reshape the privacy discourse, from one of complaining and legal coercion, to one of choices and markets.

I must really like down votes because "single most important technology project going on out there" is quite the stretch. Hell, I would argue that over the last year during a pandemic doordash was more important(feeding people while letting them be socially distanced). People on this site like overestimate the avg. persons concern with privacy. the hardware toggles are cool tho.

It's definitely got competition for the title of "most important" but think about how ubiquitous, increasingly closed off and intrusive modern smart phones are. I think there's some merit to the statement.

Re: PinePhone – Beta Edition Linux SmartPhone Preorder

#74

Post by swiley » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 2:13 PM UTC

fsflover wrote: post #69

swiley wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope the pinephone never has app stores. The "work with the community to merge your software into the repo" model is much better for things that actually help people. Apple's AppStore is best for extracting money from people while siloing their data.

There is nothing wrong with App Stores. See: F-Droid and GNU/Linux repositories. The problem is in multinational monopolies.

The GNU/Linux repos work exactly the way I described in my post. Fdroid probably does too but I haven't looked closely at it.

Re: PinePhone – Beta Edition Linux SmartPhone Preorder

#75

Post by ziml77 » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 2:13 PM UTC

aroman wrote: post #61

zepto wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no reason it can’t break the ‘duopoly’. It clearly isn’t going to do so overnight or in a year or two. But it easily could over the 5-10 year timeline. A distributed App Store plus an experience that is more attuned to the needs of users than iOS or Android can accomplish that. To solve the ‘bank’ problem all it needs to do is provide a really solid PWA story. What it shouldn’t do is provide Android compatib…

> plus an experience that is more attuned to the needs of users than iOS or Android can accomplish that. Why would this project be more effective at doing this than iOS or Android? I don’t see why people other than ideological technologists would want to use this phone. To be clear, I think it’d be great if they did, but I think you’re massively understating the difficulty of challenging iOS and Android. Many compani…

Microsoft was even trying to pay people to target apps to Windows Mobile and still couldn't succeed. And it's not like their OS was bad; I remember seeing quite a lot of praise for it.

Re: PinePhone – Beta Edition Linux SmartPhone Preorder

#76

Post by viro » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 2:14 PM UTC

swiley wrote: post #52

Luker88 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last month they even managed to fully open parts of the modem, and do calls without the closed blob for the firmware! https://twitter.com/biktorgj/status/1357217053745250304 (edit: caveat: they might not be able to actually ship the firmware since laws on this are very strict basically everywhere) The app store(s) is a bit of a problem, but in time it might be solved. Not a big problem for me.... But I'd also like to…

I hope the pinephone never has app stores. The "work with the community to merge your software into the repo" model is much better for things that actually help people. Apple's AppStore is best for extracting money from people while siloing their data.

This is so divorced from reality I don't know where to start. There is effectively no difference between "apt install widget-a" and installing it from a "App Store" other than the App Store option lets the dev feed his family if he needs to to. at least from a user stand point.

Re: PinePhone – Beta Edition Linux SmartPhone Preorder

#77

Post by justapassenger » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 2:14 PM UTC

viro wrote: post #68

wwarner wrote: post #20

I personally think that the effort to create open source phones is the single most important technology project going on out there. We have open source browsers, we have open source social apps, but we definitely do not have open source phones. Phones that can be truly owned and controlled by users will reshape the privacy discourse, from one of complaining and legal coercion, to one of choices and markets.

I must really like down votes because "single most important technology project going on out there" is quite the stretch. Hell, I would argue that over the last year during a pandemic doordash was more important(feeding people while letting them be socially distanced). People on this site like overestimate the avg. persons concern with privacy. the hardware toggles are cool tho.

You commit same error you accuse others off. DoorDash mostly solved problems for a small part of reasonably wealthy people, mostly without families, living in big cities, that don’t cook.

You overestimate how your lifestyle isn’t representative of the world.

Re: PinePhone – Beta Edition Linux SmartPhone Preorder

#78

Post by swiley » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 2:16 PM UTC

viro wrote: post #76

swiley wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope the pinephone never has app stores. The "work with the community to merge your software into the repo" model is much better for things that actually help people. Apple's AppStore is best for extracting money from people while siloing their data.

This is so divorced from reality I don't know where to start. There is effectively no difference between "apt install widget-a" and installing it from a "App Store" other than the App Store option lets the dev feed his family if he needs to to. at least from a user stand point.

Now many individual app developers are feeding their family with app store installs vs the individual OSS developers doing the same?

Re: PinePhone – Beta Edition Linux SmartPhone Preorder

#79

Post by Mediterraneo10 » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 2:18 PM UTC

fsflover wrote: post #62

amelius wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To take one example: the interaction with your bank goes through a web-browser, I suppose? You probably need a special device for 2FA? In most bank apps, you can simply log in using a PIN-code and do things like check your balance, make small wire transfers, and make payments in stores through NFC. Doing these things in a web-browser on a mobile phone with a separate 2FA device is much more cumbersome. (I use Linux e…

> the interaction with your bank goes through a web-browser, I suppose? Can also be done with Android app via Anbox: https://social.librem.one/@dos/105119691527269967

If could be done for the guy in your linked example, he was lucky and you shouldn’t be giving people false hopes. More and more bank apps are requiring phones that can pass Safety Net, and Anbox won't.

Re: PinePhone – Beta Edition Linux SmartPhone Preorder

#80

Post by viro » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 2:18 PM UTC

fsflover wrote: post #69

swiley wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope the pinephone never has app stores. The "work with the community to merge your software into the repo" model is much better for things that actually help people. Apple's AppStore is best for extracting money from people while siloing their data.

There is nothing wrong with App Stores. See: F-Droid and GNU/Linux repositories. The problem is in multinational monopolies.

People use iOS/iPhones BECAUSE of how tightly controlled the App Store is. It's like Atari vs Nintendo. If I wanted pure "freedom" I would have gotten an android, since they have at least fixed their performance issues now.