The pandemic has changed the shape of global happiness • Hacker News Board

Re: The pandemic has changed the shape of global happiness

#11

Post by JSavageOne » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 2:31 AM UTC

wvenable wrote: post #7

JSavageOne wrote: post #4

The most annoying thing to me is that when one critiques lockdown policy (which by the way is unique to the west, Korea for example never had a lockdown [1]), one is labeled as selfish, anti-science, and lumped into the Trump-supporting right wing camp. It feels like having an honest discussion isn't even possible without being downvote bombed to the point where your comment gets censored (especially on extremely one…

Lock down or not, people aren't going to go about their normal lives when hospitals are beyond capacity due to the pandemic. Maybe in that scenario, without corresponding lock downs, life wouldn't be as miserable but you don't know that.

Hospitals are not beyond capacity everywhere where lockdowns are being imposed. Hospital overcapacity is extremely location-dependent.

Also, hospital overcapacity in itself does not justify lockdown policies. Some would argue that not being allow indoor dining or to walk outside after 10pm is a violation of basic human rights (not to mention neither of these measures were implemented in Korea for example).

Re: The pandemic has changed the shape of global happiness

#12

Post by clairity » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 2:31 AM UTC

JSavageOne wrote: post #4

The most annoying thing to me is that when one critiques lockdown policy (which by the way is unique to the west, Korea for example never had a lockdown [1]), one is labeled as selfish, anti-science, and lumped into the Trump-supporting right wing camp. It feels like having an honest discussion isn't even possible without being downvote bombed to the point where your comment gets censored (especially on extremely one…

don't give up. there's plenty of us who actually have assessed the risks and weighed them apropriately, using our own brains rather than relying on others to assuage our fears.

almost none of the publicly pronounced mitigations have much mitigative effect. the most reasonable mitigation is sensible distancing when you're going to spend extended time with non-household members in tight quarters, but that's not big enough or visible enough for many, so we get the extended security theater to deal with the fear externalized onto the rest of us.

combined with light masking in situations where prolonged indoor closeness (not incidental closeness, like in a grocery aisle, but rather among friends hanging out) is unavoidable, we could have kept most businesses and institutions open and had essentially the same results. we didn't need lockdowns, school/office closures, curfews, outdoor masking, incessant handwashing/disinfecting, or any of that other stuff that didn't really have any substantive effect.

Re: The pandemic has changed the shape of global happiness

#13

Post by ekianjo » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 2:32 AM UTC

contingencies wrote: post #9

google234123 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So? Do you need more points?

Do you? Perhaps. My cursory interest is in the fact that the URLs appear identical. Usually when resubmitting things HN will just change the submission to vote up the last instance. Maybe the issues on the server this week have allowed dupes.

It only does so when it has been submitted very recently. If its more than x days apart it appears as a new submission iirc.

Re: The pandemic has changed the shape of global happiness

#14

Post by ekianjo » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 2:34 AM UTC

wvenable wrote: post #7

JSavageOne wrote: post #4

The most annoying thing to me is that when one critiques lockdown policy (which by the way is unique to the west, Korea for example never had a lockdown [1]), one is labeled as selfish, anti-science, and lumped into the Trump-supporting right wing camp. It feels like having an honest discussion isn't even possible without being downvote bombed to the point where your comment gets censored (especially on extremely one…

Lock down or not, people aren't going to go about their normal lives when hospitals are beyond capacity due to the pandemic. Maybe in that scenario, without corresponding lock downs, life wouldn't be as miserable but you don't know that.

Where exactly are hospitals beyond capacity ? Please provide sources for extraordinary claims.

Re: The pandemic has changed the shape of global happiness

#15

Post by ekianjo » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 2:36 AM UTC

MattGaiser wrote: post #8

JSavageOne wrote: post #4

The most annoying thing to me is that when one critiques lockdown policy (which by the way is unique to the west, Korea for example never had a lockdown [1]), one is labeled as selfish, anti-science, and lumped into the Trump-supporting right wing camp. It feels like having an honest discussion isn't even possible without being downvote bombed to the point where your comment gets censored (especially on extremely one…

> which by the way is unique to the west The idea came from China and was considered unthinkable here when they did it. India also locked down. Friends in Ghana also told me that they locked down.

Japan never enforced any lock down and even actively encouraged people for months to travel in the midst of the pandemic. So far they did OK. Very limited number of infections and deaths.

Re: The pandemic has changed the shape of global happiness

#16

Post by ilikehurdles » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 2:40 AM UTC

JSavageOne wrote: post #10

MattGaiser wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> which by the way is unique to the west The idea came from China and was considered unthinkable here when they did it. India also locked down. Friends in Ghana also told me that they locked down.

Ok I stand corrected and should've been more explicit. What I meant was that the east Asian countries hailed as role models - South Korea, Taiwan, etc - never had to resort to lockdowns. Meanwhile Europe is practically shut down, the U.S. had very harsh lockdowns, etc.

Taiwan has temperature checks to get anywhere and very effective contact tracing to segregate all potentially infectious individuals in quarantine. Coughs and fever, even if unrelated to covid, result in the individual having to spend some time in a hospital room. Its borders are almost fully closed to outsiders. Not only that, a culture of mask wearing has been normalized throughout east Asia for ages.

Do you honestly, honestly believe that Americans or Europeans at any level would have been able to transition to and adhere to such strict restrictions?

Re: The pandemic has changed the shape of global happiness

#17

Post by tobasq » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 2:41 AM UTC

JSavageOne wrote: post #4

The most annoying thing to me is that when one critiques lockdown policy (which by the way is unique to the west, Korea for example never had a lockdown [1]), one is labeled as selfish, anti-science, and lumped into the Trump-supporting right wing camp. It feels like having an honest discussion isn't even possible without being downvote bombed to the point where your comment gets censored (especially on extremely one…

Do you really imagine a USA that didn't lock down doing as well as South Korea and Taiwan? Look at our numbers with the lockdowns.

The Asian countries were only able to do what they did because they were prepared, culturally and logistically, for a viral epidemic before one arrived.

Re: The pandemic has changed the shape of global happiness

#18

Post by JSavageOne » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 2:43 AM UTC

ilikehurdles wrote: post #16

JSavageOne wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok I stand corrected and should've been more explicit. What I meant was that the east Asian countries hailed as role models - South Korea, Taiwan, etc - never had to resort to lockdowns. Meanwhile Europe is practically shut down, the U.S. had very harsh lockdowns, etc.

Taiwan has temperature checks to get anywhere and very effective contact tracing to segregate all potentially infectious individuals in quarantine. Coughs and fever, even if unrelated to covid, result in the individual having to spend some time in a hospital room. Its borders are almost fully closed to outsiders. Not only that, a culture of mask wearing has been normalized throughout east Asia for ages. Do you honest…

> Do you honestly, honestly believe that Americans or Europeans at any level would have been able to transition to and adhere to such strict restrictions?

Of course. Why would that not be possible?

This is another common response I see, this defeatist attitude that the west is not capable of implementing the same smart common sense policies that the east did. With this pessimistic attitude it's sure as hell not possible, and will be the west's downfall.

Re: The pandemic has changed the shape of global happiness

#19

Post by Phrodo_00 » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 2:45 AM UTC

> It is as though Latin American countries had the wrong kind of happiness before 2020, says Mr Helliwell—a happiness sustained by people’s close social connections, not by high levels of social trust.

Why is high social trust the 'correct' kind of happiness?

I'm willing to give leeway and interpret this as the wrong kind of happiness for the situation, though.

Re: The pandemic has changed the shape of global happiness

#20

Post by ilikehurdles » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 2:47 AM UTC

JSavageOne wrote: post #18

ilikehurdles wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taiwan has temperature checks to get anywhere and very effective contact tracing to segregate all potentially infectious individuals in quarantine. Coughs and fever, even if unrelated to covid, result in the individual having to spend some time in a hospital room. Its borders are almost fully closed to outsiders. Not only that, a culture of mask wearing has been normalized throughout east Asia for ages. Do you honest…

> Do you honestly, honestly believe that Americans or Europeans at any level would have been able to transition to and adhere to such strict restrictions? Of course. Why would that not be possible? This is another common response I see, this defeatist attitude that the west is not capable of implementing the same smart common sense policies that the east did. With this pessimistic attitude it's sure as hell not possi…

I admire your optimism.

I agree to the extent that our pessimistic attitudes are a cancer that will lead to our downfall. I do not believe we can overcome them as they permeate up and down the spectrum of influence and political power.

I realize the irony in taking a pessimistic stance and recognizing the harm in that pessimism, but I don’t really know what else to say or how to change it.