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Guess What: iCloud Uses Windows Azure Services For Hosting Data

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Re: Guess What: iCloud Uses Windows Azure Services For Hosting Data

#51
i think this is all based on the VL2 paper, described here: http://perspectives.mvdirona.com/2009/10/05/VL2AScalableAndF... and the paper available here: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.156....

it boasts of some freakishly fast ability to shuffle 2.7Tb between 75 servers in 27 seconds...

Re: Guess What: iCloud Uses Windows Azure Services For Hosting Data

#52
post #5

Wouldn't this make a successful iCloud even more embarrassing for Microsoft? They have the technology, but can't market it or make it easy for consumers to use?

Of course not. It's akin to saying any successful Rails app is an embarrassment to 37signals because they had the technology to create it but didn't.

37signals takes Rails and makes the products they intend to make.

Microsoft has attempted to make a successful cloud platform - their commercials all proclaim, "To the Cloud!" - and yet, they fail, while someone else takes their technology and (potentially) succeeds.

Re: Guess What: iCloud Uses Windows Azure Services For Hosting Data

#53
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a logical standpoint, you are correct. From a marketing or political (business, no government politics), Apple could blame Microsoft for iCloud failing, regardless of the truth, to a point. To put it another way, I frequently tell people "Businesses choose Java because if it fails, it isn't because they choose Java." This means that if the Director of IT says to build with the industry standard of Java (or .Net)…

Considering the amount of none trivial work about having to port your apps from one Rails version to the next I would be surprised if the Director didn't get part or most of the blame for forcing them to use Rails. And saying that they could just stay in an old version is not valid. When bugs are discovered in the old version most likely they will not be fixed because everybody has already moved on. Enterprise projec…

And it was non-trivial to go from Java 1.4 to 1.5.

Re: Guess What: iCloud Uses Windows Azure Services For Hosting Data

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably. But, in order to run on Azure, don't things have to be written in C#/.NET? That would suggest that their production stack will also leverage these technologies, potentially on windows (unless Mono over Linux or BSD is actually mature enough for this sort of thing, I wouldn't know)

> But, in order to run on Azure, don't things have to be written in C#/.NET? No, not at all. They also have support for Java, Ruby, and PHP.

To be clearer, Windows Azure can run any code that can run on Windows. So if you have x86/x64 code that runs in a Win2k8 OS, you're good to go. And most languages can do that, some with Cygwin. The major ones (Java, PHP, Python, Ruby, Erlang, etc) have phenomenal Windows support out of the box.

For this next bit, see my disclaimer below. The blog post mentions windows.net. That is the domain for the Windows Azure storage services (blobs, tables, queues, etc). In specific, the headers mentioned seem consistent with a storage request made to the blob service.

Disclaimer: I used to work on Windows Azure until a few weeks ago on strategic adoption among other things so I have to put this here. This is no comment on whether the OP's blog post is accurate or not, on any Apple-Microsoft relationship, etc.

Re: Guess What: iCloud Uses Windows Azure Services For Hosting Data

#55
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a logical standpoint, you are correct. From a marketing or political (business, no government politics), Apple could blame Microsoft for iCloud failing, regardless of the truth, to a point. To put it another way, I frequently tell people "Businesses choose Java because if it fails, it isn't because they choose Java." This means that if the Director of IT says to build with the industry standard of Java (or .Net)…

Considering the amount of none trivial work about having to port your apps from one Rails version to the next I would be surprised if the Director didn't get part or most of the blame for forcing them to use Rails. And saying that they could just stay in an old version is not valid. When bugs are discovered in the old version most likely they will not be fixed because everybody has already moved on. Enterprise projec…

> When bugs are discovered in the old version most likely they will not be fixed because everybody has already moved on.

Is this a real problem? If you encounter a bug in an older version of Rails, why not just fix it and carry on as usual? Fixing bugs is part of the job of being a developer. If you are afraid to fix bugs, your application isn't going to last long no matter what language, framework, or platform you choose.

Re: Guess What: iCloud Uses Windows Azure Services For Hosting Data

#56
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course not. It's akin to saying any successful Rails app is an embarrassment to 37signals because they had the technology to create it but didn't.

37signals takes Rails and makes the products they intend to make. Microsoft has attempted to make a successful cloud platform - their commercials all proclaim, "To the Cloud!" - and yet, they fail, while someone else takes their technology and (potentially) succeeds.

>Microsoft has attempted to make a successful cloud platform - their commercials all proclaim, "To the Cloud!" - and yet, they fail, while someone else takes their technology and (potentially) succeeds.

I don't really think that MS has targeted Windows Azure towards the general consumer market, though. It's basically the same as Amazon Web Services. Apple using that tech gives them an incredibly strong marketing tool, especially for companies that are trying to decide between using Amazon or something else for cloud-based services.

Re: Guess What: iCloud Uses Windows Azure Services For Hosting Data

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering the amount of none trivial work about having to port your apps from one Rails version to the next I would be surprised if the Director didn't get part or most of the blame for forcing them to use Rails. And saying that they could just stay in an old version is not valid. When bugs are discovered in the old version most likely they will not be fixed because everybody has already moved on. Enterprise projec…

> When bugs are discovered in the old version most likely they will not be fixed because everybody has already moved on. Is this a real problem? If you encounter a bug in an older version of Rails, why not just fix it and carry on as usual? Fixing bugs is part of the job of being a developer. If you are afraid to fix bugs, your application isn't going to last long no matter what language, framework, or platform you c…

I'm talking about bugs in the Rails framework. I think very few people would like to be having to maintain an outdated framework. And for the ones that actually do decide to maintain a framework that they did not develop themselves it will cost them a lot of money.

Re: Guess What: iCloud Uses Windows Azure Services For Hosting Data

#58
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering the amount of none trivial work about having to port your apps from one Rails version to the next I would be surprised if the Director didn't get part or most of the blame for forcing them to use Rails. And saying that they could just stay in an old version is not valid. When bugs are discovered in the old version most likely they will not be fixed because everybody has already moved on. Enterprise projec…

And it was non-trivial to go from Java 1.4 to 1.5.

With all due respect, I don't know what you are talking about. Programs in 1.4 run fine in 1.5. Every time there is a new version of Java I install it in my machine and just continue working as usual. I would be really upset if I had to spend time trying to make everything work again with every new version. They deprecate methods and functionality but they do not remove it. Java is not that much older than Ruby/Rails and it is pretty stable. Ruby/Rails may be great but I really don't want to go through the pain of having to port my code to the next version. I rather spend my time on adding new features.

Even Android, which is many times younger, never does this. Everything is always backwards compatible. Android developers would be up in arms if they just decided to break all apps in a new version of Android. Granted, it could still happen because nobody is perfect. Although it has never happened in any of my apps and I don't know if it has ever happened at all except for the early Beta period. When something is no longer supported they deprecate the functionality but do not remove it.

Re: Guess What: iCloud Uses Windows Azure Services For Hosting Data

#59
post #56
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

37signals takes Rails and makes the products they intend to make. Microsoft has attempted to make a successful cloud platform - their commercials all proclaim, "To the Cloud!" - and yet, they fail, while someone else takes their technology and (potentially) succeeds.

>Microsoft has attempted to make a successful cloud platform - their commercials all proclaim, "To the Cloud!" - and yet, they fail, while someone else takes their technology and (potentially) succeeds. I don't really think that MS has targeted Windows Azure towards the general consumer market, though. It's basically the same as Amazon Web Services. Apple using that tech gives them an incredibly strong marketing tool…

Not Azure per se, but Microsoft did try to bring cloud to consumers. Does anyone recall Livemesh

http://explore.live.com/windows-live-mesh?os=other

Am not sure how much traction it finally got

Re: Guess What: iCloud Uses Windows Azure Services For Hosting Data

#60

Wait, so what was that billion dollar data center [1] Apple built in North Carolina for? [1] http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2011/02/apples-nc-data-cen...

I'm guessing the third party services are for data hosting, and the data center does CPU and database intensive processing.
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