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Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

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Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#871

Post by bingbong70 »

twelve40 wrote: post #774
unishark wrote: post #636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conspiracy theorists are always going to weave conspiracy theories, though. That doesn't absolve the media or the rest of us from being the adults in the room.

But some things make no sense at all. The most populated country on the planet - a vast, vast population across the area almost as big as the US - has been inexplicably reporting almost zero infections since like March 10, 2020 (way before any vaccines) while the rest of the world (except small and isolated regions), the richest and presumably the most advanced societies still can't get their shit together, are still…

With this logic you can criminalize all of Chinese success...how convenient...

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#872

Post by Mat342 »

p1necone wrote: post #646
unishark wrote: post #636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conspiracy theorists are always going to weave conspiracy theories, though. That doesn't absolve the media or the rest of us from being the adults in the room.

Yes but when when people consistently bring up the mostly unfalsifiable theory that is most associated with conspiracy theories it's basically impossible to separate the conspiracy theorists from everyone else, and sadly much more productive to just not engage.

Wait people can't debunk dumdum conspiracy theories? sad

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#873

Post by Mat342 »

sampo wrote: post #867
kjjjjjjjjjjjjjj wrote: post #644

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We need to avoid demonizing China over this if we want to ever find out the truth and learn how to prevent another pandemic outbreak. But China knew about the virus in 2019 and kept it quiet. They silenced scientists. China is complicit in this pandemic and should pay reparations.

> But China knew about the virus in 2019 and kept it quiet. I don't think it would have mattered. We had documentaries such as The Lockdown [1] in the end of February 2020, yet still most Western countries spent much of March 2020 still debating whether they should react somehow or not. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XU9FVqwO4TM

Wuhan virus won't be on scale of Sars, says Chinese top expert Zhong Nanshan

https://archive.is/O5PhV

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#874

Post by bingbong70 »

FabHK wrote: post #818
cameldrv wrote: post #741

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. If there were an Anthrax outbreak in Ft. Detrick, MD, everyone would be immediately assuming the lab was involved. Wuhan is the Ft. Detrick of Coronaviruses.

I wrote this on 2020-01-24 (when that speculation was fairly new), and wonder why that sort of simple statistical argument has rarely been made explicit: It certainly is an interesting coincidence that the only lab in China that can deal with it happens to be in Wuhan. The question is, how big of a coincidence. If the disease hit a random person randomly uniformly anywhere in China, the probability that it would have…

We are fitting information here...if a foreign actor were to drop covid-19 in a Chinese city, they would choose Wuhan for the same reasons you stated...

China and many other countries in the global south have a long history of being the victim of US/Japan/UK germ warfare. Seems convenient/self-serving to ignore this multi-century trend.

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#875

Post by Mat342 »

ceilingcorner wrote: post #757
gregwebs wrote: post #397

This is a great article explaining why a lab leak should always be a suspect. The alternative theory is that a virus traveled on its own (via bats or other animals) from bat caves 900km away to Wuhan where there are 2 labs researching bats. One of the labs is lesser known but is right next to the seafood market and the hospital where the outbreak was first known. [1] This article points out that a lab outbreak could…

People are demonizing the CCP because they refuse to allow a thorough investigation.

Also they lied Wuhan virus won't be on scale of Sars, says Chinese top expert Zhong Nanshan https://archive.is/O5PhV#selection-895.0-924.7

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#876

Post by loudtieblahblah »

andrewflnr wrote: post #607
strogonoff wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An eerily prescient quote from a paper[0] published in 2015, two of the authors of which are with Wuhan Institute of Virology: > Understanding the bat origin of human coronaviruses is helpful for the prediction and prevention of another pandemic emergence in the future. China has clearly contributed valuable research into bat coronaviruses. They had all the motivation to look into these after the first deadly SARS. I…

My impression was that "lab escape" was conflated with "deliberate release" by conspiracy types early on, and once that took hold it became impossible to talk rationally about the accidental escape hypothesis.

If there was a lab leak.. The resistance to independent investigation, the disappearing of doctors who reported on this early on and such makes them just as guilty as if it was done on purpose.

At this juncture maliciousness or negligence is just splitting hairs. How they handled the negligence might as well have been malicious.

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#877

Post by herbst »

bitreality wrote: post #673
ethbr0 wrote: post #639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, you know, we may just be talking about a paranoid autocracy with an obsession for controlling information? This is a government that bans talking about multiple periods of the country's history.

For that very reason, we cannot accept their narrative at face value. We certainly don't have enough information to confidently eliminate the lab escape theory. The media has largely suggested that the lab escape theory has been disproved.

On the other side we have a dying super power with a carot as president tgat proclaims the opposite is true.

Both sides cant be taken at face value.

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#878

Post by herbst »

twelve40 wrote: post #790
TimJRobinson wrote: post #780

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Australia, NZ and many countries in Asia did just fine. You just need a government that has its shit together and a populace that complies with the government. When you're missing one or both of those elements of course you're going to have problems with a pandemic.

So both China's government and 1.4B populace have their shit together, fully solved at ~0 infections pre-vaccine for one full year now, but the US, the EU, the newly non-EU UK, and (to a lesser extent) Japan all failed miserably?

Do you even remember the early responses from these countries? If you do that does not sound that unlikely

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#879

Post by loudtieblahblah »

ktzar wrote: post #787
bitcharmer wrote: post #778

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I couldn't agree more. There is so much evidence of China suppressing information I don't understand how so many people dismiss their role in spreading the virus beyond their borders. They had a choice to make: country-wide lockdown and travel ban or lie about it and make it spread worldwide. The former would leave their economy in a disadvantaged state while the latter would level the playing field for the rest of t…

China did a harder lockdown than any other country has done. Right from the beginning. Took an immense toll to its economy, right from the beginning. A WHO team was there investigating and gathering information on public health from the beginning. I'm sorry, but in this case, China is the country who told the rest of the world what to do and the west, with its superiority mentality over the east, ignored it and got a…

I like how china's over the top, authoritarian measures, sometimes including sealing people in their homes physically, is idolized by people in the west.

We could have double the death rate and I still wouldn't concede this. And I wear a mask, wife and I wfh. Kid is still at home.

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#880

Post by cryptica »

If globalization and wealth concentration/inequality continues, workers will become more malicious and we're going to be seeing more leaks and unexpected threats coming from all sorts of places and industries. Humanity will destroy itself. It's vital that we decentralize capital and bring back fairness to the global economy.
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