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MacBook Owners' Butterfly Keyboard Lawsuit Gets Class Action Certification

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Re: MacBook Owners' Butterfly Keyboard Lawsuit Gets Class Action Certification

#101

Post by harha »

TheRealSteel wrote: post #55
cletus wrote: post #18

I actually blame Johnny Ive for this clusterf*ck. Ive famously pursued a crusade for thinness. It's said that design is the art of compromise. Well, Ive took a no compromises approach to thinness and it showed. Look no further than the 12" Macbook. One port (also needed for power), lower power CPU and (I believe?) the start of the dreaded butterfly keyboard. IIRC the butterfly keyboard's raison d'etre was to shave ha…

I don't believe the Air got rid of the Touch Bar -- it never had it. It was only on the Pro. What's so "Pro" about replacing the useful function keys (including the escape key) with a bar that does nothing but pick emojis is beyond me. I strongly dislike the Touch Bar. I'm typing this on a 2019 MacBook Pro whose Touch Bar died yesterday, leaving me with no escape key, no volume buttons, no keyboard brightness buttons…

The touchbar as a more complex, expensive and easy to break part is such a poor design choice. Though so is the rest of the butterfly keyboard. It shouldn’t cost so much to replace such a simple part that is directly used everyday.

This is also why I dread having to get a new car with all the fancy electronics, they might be cool and useful now but apart from touchscreens being inferior to handle without looking on them (something I prefer to avoid while driving), that’s one thing that will both break and in general be worse than my phone, probably already when it comes out and by the next generation at the latest. (Quite ironically Bluetooth as the interface to my car was the first thing that broke and would cost EUR 900 to replace, which makes me happy I didn’t take the navigation)

I wish I could just pay a premium for longer lasting design. It also shows how silly it is when companies say they want to be net zero on emissions, then produce something that could easily work well for almost a decade were it not for some ridiculously expensive part breaking.

Re: MacBook Owners' Butterfly Keyboard Lawsuit Gets Class Action Certification

#102

Post by harha »

ayyy wrote: post #56
TheRealSteel wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe the Air got rid of the Touch Bar -- it never had it. It was only on the Pro. What's so "Pro" about replacing the useful function keys (including the escape key) with a bar that does nothing but pick emojis is beyond me. I strongly dislike the Touch Bar. I'm typing this on a 2019 MacBook Pro whose Touch Bar died yesterday, leaving me with no escape key, no volume buttons, no keyboard brightness buttons…

Protip: remap capslock to escape. It's supported in the OS settings.

I feel like that’s where the control key needs to be, I use that way more than escape, especially in combination with other keys and so it’s best when I can reach it easily.

Re: MacBook Owners' Butterfly Keyboard Lawsuit Gets Class Action Certification

#103

Post by midrus »

SilverRed wrote: post #20
cletus wrote: post #18

I actually blame Johnny Ive for this clusterf*ck. Ive famously pursued a crusade for thinness. It's said that design is the art of compromise. Well, Ive took a no compromises approach to thinness and it showed. Look no further than the 12" Macbook. One port (also needed for power), lower power CPU and (I believe?) the start of the dreaded butterfly keyboard. IIRC the butterfly keyboard's raison d'etre was to shave ha…

I recently had the choice between a macbook pro and a dell xps. Saw the dell xps had HDMI, USB-C _and_ USB-A and was sold. Its nice to be able to bring my laptop in to a meeting room and just be able to plug in the hdmi cable without needing an adapter. Its also really nice to be able to use all my usb c accessories but without having to go usb C only. And its not noticeably thicker than the macbook either. I can und…

I understand some people do need all these ports, but in my experience (and opinion) an XPS is worse in every other metric.

The trackpad is terrible, the sound is terrible, the screen is worse, the webcam is not as good. I cannot use windows so I have to use Linux, which brings a good bunch of its problems such as external screen with different resolutions, having to setup scaling for many applications individually, and always being the last guy to join meetings because every day I have a different problems switching to my usb headset, etc. I ended up going back to a macbook pro. The XPS hardware might look as good in the specs, but it won't last for more than 2 years, it crackles everywhere and the paint (in the trackpad, for example) wears off pretty easily if you use it every day.

So, yes, I'd love macbooks to have more ports, but by no metric that problem alone would lead me to prefer it over an XPS.

Just my preference/experience anyway.

Re: MacBook Owners' Butterfly Keyboard Lawsuit Gets Class Action Certification

#104

Post by Noumenon72 »

TheRealSteel wrote: post #55
cletus wrote: post #18

I actually blame Johnny Ive for this clusterf*ck. Ive famously pursued a crusade for thinness. It's said that design is the art of compromise. Well, Ive took a no compromises approach to thinness and it showed. Look no further than the 12" Macbook. One port (also needed for power), lower power CPU and (I believe?) the start of the dreaded butterfly keyboard. IIRC the butterfly keyboard's raison d'etre was to shave ha…

I don't believe the Air got rid of the Touch Bar -- it never had it. It was only on the Pro. What's so "Pro" about replacing the useful function keys (including the escape key) with a bar that does nothing but pick emojis is beyond me. I strongly dislike the Touch Bar. I'm typing this on a 2019 MacBook Pro whose Touch Bar died yesterday, leaving me with no escape key, no volume buttons, no keyboard brightness buttons…

Just yesterday I finally found out why Word on the Mac kept selecting text while I was typing! After weeks of thinking the touchpad was ultra sensitive, I figured out that my finger hovers over F8 when I type the letter 'y'. F8 activates Extend Mode in Word, so my typing got captured to expand my selection to the next occurrence of each letter. I never felt myself touch the key at all.

Re: MacBook Owners' Butterfly Keyboard Lawsuit Gets Class Action Certification

#105

Post by shp0ngle »

jghn wrote: post #27
cletus wrote: post #18

I actually blame Johnny Ive for this clusterf*ck. Ive famously pursued a crusade for thinness. It's said that design is the art of compromise. Well, Ive took a no compromises approach to thinness and it showed. Look no further than the 12" Macbook. One port (also needed for power), lower power CPU and (I believe?) the start of the dreaded butterfly keyboard. IIRC the butterfly keyboard's raison d'etre was to shave ha…

YMMV. My 12" retina MacBook was perhaps my favorite machine I've owned. I have a M1 Air now, I like it as well. There are some pros and cons to both. I do still miss the smaller form factor.

I have 2017 MacBook retina, and... it is just way too slow. Can open 2 or 3 electron apps at the same time at max. Trying to run 3 electron apps and an IDE, it becomes unusable.

And nowadays everything is an electron app. So... I am considering updating.

I love the form factor though and I don’t really care about the ports or the keyboard. (it broke once, I fixed it)

Re: MacBook Owners' Butterfly Keyboard Lawsuit Gets Class Action Certification

#107

Post by TheRealSteel »

Eric_WVGG wrote: post #44
batterylow wrote: post #2

It's the worst typing experience I've had to date https://datacrayon.com/posts/tools/misc/macbook-butterfly-ke...

I'm one of the rare weirdos who really likes the feel of the butterfly keyboard. I love the snappy, tappy reaction. The new "magic" keyboards feel mushy in comparison. BUT… my 2016 MBP is on its third keyboard, and seems ready for a fourth. AND… for four years I've been wondering if my typing has been getting progressively worse worse; a couple weeks ago I picked up an M1 Air as a kind of stopgap while waiting for th…

I'm on your side. I love the low travel and the clickiness. I don't like how easily it breaks, and I don't like the Touch Bar, but I actually really like typing on the butterfly keyboard itself (I'm typing this on one), I find I'm very fast and accurate and it feels quick and clean.

Re: MacBook Owners' Butterfly Keyboard Lawsuit Gets Class Action Certification

#108

Post by dawnerd »

baby wrote: post #45

Both my work macbook pro and my personal macbook air have keyboard issues. My personal skips or double hits the letter “e”, which has been a nightmare because I’ve been writing a book the whole time. My work laptop is worse, the command key doesn’t work most of the time. Sometimes I try to copy something, I’ll hit command-c and instead it’ll overwrite my selection with “c”. So I try to undo and hit command-z, so it’l…

I noticed that on the 12” macbook when it started to get warm. If the keyboard was cool it never happened. But once it was under load keys started getting all janky.

Re: MacBook Owners' Butterfly Keyboard Lawsuit Gets Class Action Certification

#109

Post by piva00 »

behnamoh wrote: post #89
TheRealSteel wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what I've done, but I hate having to adjust my typing habit. It's annoying enough that thanks to the touch bar I'm now incapable of typing escape on any other computer (because I'm in the habit of merely touching escape, not pushing it), now I have to adjust again and I'm going to be in the habit of pushing caps lock.

Believe me, you'll love using Caps Lock instead of ESC very soon. I switched the two using Karabiner (for mac) and I wonder how I used computers all those years before that. If you use vim (or vimium on Firefox), you'll absolutely like this change.

Caps Lock as ESC on short presses and Cmd+Opt+Ctrl+Shift (Meta key) on long presses has opened up a lot of shortcuts on IDEs and OS for me.

It's been so many years that I can't remember how it is not having these combos.

Re: MacBook Owners' Butterfly Keyboard Lawsuit Gets Class Action Certification

#110

Post by nightowl_games »

midrus wrote: post #103
SilverRed wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently had the choice between a macbook pro and a dell xps. Saw the dell xps had HDMI, USB-C _and_ USB-A and was sold. Its nice to be able to bring my laptop in to a meeting room and just be able to plug in the hdmi cable without needing an adapter. Its also really nice to be able to use all my usb c accessories but without having to go usb C only. And its not noticeably thicker than the macbook either. I can und…

I understand some people do need all these ports, but in my experience (and opinion) an XPS is worse in every other metric. The trackpad is terrible, the sound is terrible, the screen is worse, the webcam is not as good. I cannot use windows so I have to use Linux, which brings a good bunch of its problems such as external screen with different resolutions, having to setup scaling for many applications individually,…

I have XPS's and MacBooks in my house. For the record, none of the XPS's have HDMI or USBA. They have for several years. That's a shame. But in addition, none of the other things you mentioned are worse on the XPS.

I bought one cause I prefer Linux, my wife got one because it was 1k$ cheaper than the comparable MacBook. She's a designer and the screen is 100% Adobe RGB coverage.

The XPS and MacBook, from a hardware perspective, are basically equivalent. Its a shame they both took the ports out.

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