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YouTube and Patreon Still Aren’t Paying the Rent for Most Creatives

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Re: YouTube and Patreon Still Aren’t Paying the Rent for Most Creatives

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For decades actors, musicians and artists have put up with this Well, it's not that simple is it. For decades actors, musicians and artists have been complaining that they have to live in misery to pursue their art and fighting for better conditions, it's not like they've always been OK with the status quo. It's a more general question: should art be subject to the market laws, or should society subsidize art produ…

> On the second case (a more socialist POV), we need to challenge how artists are getting a revenue in our society because it's clearly not working. This can be exploited. Imagine if I wrote a program that simply outputs a string of 1000 random notes and durations and published this as a song every day, with a random UUID for the title. This is technically art, but is it the same as your favorite musician? Now if som…

I'm just vaguely talking about 2 very high-level perspectives and you look for loopholes like I came up with a whole set of rules!

I'm not suggesting that artists should be paid unconditionally per piece, obviously that'd be ridiculous. I'm not suggesting _anything_. I'm just saying that maybe (maybe not) society as a whole finds enough value in art that it wants to make sure that artists can survive. Maybe "the market" is the whole answer, maybe we want the market to have no part in artists' income, maybe it's just one part of the answer (lots of countries like Italy and France heavily subsidize culture & art).

> How do you draw the line?

By drawing a line? We manage to draw lines on unemployment pensions, retirement pensions, research subsidies, children benefits, universal healthcare... It's nothing magical, we draw lines by writing laws that seem to account for different cases, and we know it's not perfect and that there's loopholes in laws, that some people get too much and some others too little, but we iterate and adapt.

But in summary, I don't know! I'm not a politician, an economist, an artist or even a particularly keen art consumer. I just don't believe "the market" is the One True Answer.

Re: YouTube and Patreon Still Aren’t Paying the Rent for Most Creatives

#234
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's already free to watch even the smallest channel on youtube, the income from the largest channels subsidizes the servers needed to transcode the millions of videos that will only ever get a single view. The "problem" is that most creators have miniscule audiences. The "transparent and fairly" returned ad profits for someone with ten viewers is never going to be very large. The power law in entertainment has alway…

> the income from the largest channels subsidizes the servers needed to transcode the millions of videos that will only ever get a single view. Exactly. I had 3 different channels, in different points in my life, but the fact that I could, for free, upload a video and have it hosted and then (possibly) watched worldwide on almost any device, it's bonkers. If I had to create an app or pay for storage/upload/etc, it wo…

It wouldn't be impossible. You could rent a VPS for $20/month and serve thousands of people your videos

A lot of coders tend to think of videos as being these big, unwieldy things since we used to download them when computers and the internet were a lot weaker. An hour of 480p video is about a gig, 1080p is only about 3 gigs

Re: YouTube and Patreon Still Aren’t Paying the Rent for Most Creatives

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sure, but these are not jobs, they are things anyone can do, and might get paid for. If they got rid of the payments all together, people would still do it for free.

So volunteer work.

Basically, kind of like commenting on HN or answering questions on stack overflow

Re: YouTube and Patreon Still Aren’t Paying the Rent for Most Creatives

#236

99% of creatives have never been able to pay their rent by selling what they make. It's not even about how good they are - some people produce amazing stuff but it's not something that enough other people want to own (or listen to, or watch, or whatever). The lucky few whose creative spark happens to coincide with market demand get to do that all day long. For the rest of us, it's a day job to pay the rent (which mig…

> It's not even about how good they are - some people produce amazing stuff but it's not something that enough other people want to own (or listen to, or watch, or whatever). This isn't even the problem. It's that to be successful you need to be more than good at your job you need to be great at doing a few other jobs as well. Namely running a business and marketing. And lucky in catching the break the propels you up…

> This requirement for discoverability, marketability and virality also changes the media significantly. YouTube is rife with ten minute videos, clickbait titles and overenthusiastic yelling. This is entirely on the platforms, their bid for retention to keep people watching one more video and how discovery and recommendations work.

Isn't that a sad loss ? so many people trying to get a hold of a vapor cake to grab attention.

Makes working at a plant like a step up ..

Re: YouTube and Patreon Still Aren’t Paying the Rent for Most Creatives

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. Most indie game devs don't make enough from it to pay rent. Most authors don't make enough to pay rent from writing.

When we talk about copyrights, there's always an argument made in their favour which is basically 'we have to engineer incentives in order to get people to make good new stuff'. Why does that apply to copyright law but not to regulating tech monopolies like Youtube?

Does Regulating big techs work to give incentives for creators?

Re: YouTube and Patreon Still Aren’t Paying the Rent for Most Creatives

#238
post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the income from the largest channels subsidizes the servers needed to transcode the millions of videos that will only ever get a single view. Exactly. I had 3 different channels, in different points in my life, but the fact that I could, for free, upload a video and have it hosted and then (possibly) watched worldwide on almost any device, it's bonkers. If I had to create an app or pay for storage/upload/etc, it wo…

It wouldn't be impossible. You could rent a VPS for $20/month and serve thousands of people your videos A lot of coders tend to think of videos as being these big, unwieldy things since we used to download them when computers and the internet were a lot weaker. An hour of 480p video is about a gig, 1080p is only about 3 gigs

> You could rent a VPS for $20/month and serve thousands of people your videos

That's considering:

- Transcoding for all types of devices

- Having apps that work on all those devices

- Being one app that people already use/already have an account to it to reduce friction

- Being in an environment where people already are, and where they can discover your content without you telling them about it

Sounds kind of ok-ish to me. But for MANY people (most, I would say), $20 bucks is multiple meals, and is a significant spending considering for quite a while, nobody is going to see the content.

If I pay $0 to upload and nobody sees it, I don't lose much.

Re: YouTube and Patreon Still Aren’t Paying the Rent for Most Creatives

#240
post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wouldn't be impossible. You could rent a VPS for $20/month and serve thousands of people your videos A lot of coders tend to think of videos as being these big, unwieldy things since we used to download them when computers and the internet were a lot weaker. An hour of 480p video is about a gig, 1080p is only about 3 gigs

> You could rent a VPS for $20/month and serve thousands of people your videos That's considering: - Transcoding for all types of devices - Having apps that work on all those devices - Being one app that people already use/already have an account to it to reduce friction - Being in an environment where people already are, and where they can discover your content without you telling them about it Sounds kind of ok-ish…

Yeah, you give up a lot of those bonuses (but not all of them, considering the state of web video..)

On the plus side, though, if your videos start pulling in ad money, you keep all of it. And you don't have to worry about getting locked out of your Google account because of some overzealous bot misinterpreting a tiny scrap of background music or conversation about chess piece colors

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