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MacBook Owners' Butterfly Keyboard Lawsuit Gets Class Action Certification

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Re: MacBook Owners' Butterfly Keyboard Lawsuit Gets Class Action Certification

#21

Post by p1necone »

drivebycomment wrote: post #8

I'm not sure I fully understand the rationale behind this lawsuit. I hated butterfly keyboard the moment I tried it, which is why I stopped upgrading/buying MacBook Pro entirely. People who bought had all the chances to try and decide not to buy, or to even return after trying. They stuck to it. What's the ground for the class action ? Did Apple make any misleading presentation ? Otherwise, this feels like suing simp…

The problem isn't that it feels bad - that of course is personal preference and would not be grounds for a class action. The problem is that it breaks quickly, which is not something that you can find out by trying it out for 10 minutes in a shop.

Re: MacBook Owners' Butterfly Keyboard Lawsuit Gets Class Action Certification

#22

Post by gen220 »

birdyrooster wrote: post #6
rbanffy wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually like the very tactile nature. I think it's a shame to have to return to the previous model, where key travel is longer, but the tactility is meh.

I agree, I don't like key travel. I guess I am in the minority of people, because my RSI symptoms are actually lessened by lowering my key travel and trigger force. How I differ though is that I really would prefer a more quiet key than the Butterfly style. It's hard to type quietly on the toilet or in a meeting.

Just trying to help, since I’ve been there! Your RSI symptoms might be correlated with but not caused by key travel / force.

I’ve found that the dominant cause of RSI is wrist pose (position + orientation), which is mostly influenced by keyboard height (relative to your body), and also to a lesser extent by key pose.

Using a split, rising-away keyboard at a position where elbows are bent 90ish degrees and the wrists are in a neutral position is a game-changer.

Lower key travel/trigger times change the orientation of your wrists, but not the position. So it might make things better, but no laptop keyboard will provide the optimal typing environment.

Re: MacBook Owners' Butterfly Keyboard Lawsuit Gets Class Action Certification

#23

Post by QuercusMax »

batterylow wrote: post #2

It's the worst typing experience I've had to date https://datacrayon.com/posts/tools/misc/macbook-butterfly-ke...

I now have RSI after using my 2018 macbook pro. I remember after those came out, everybody's typing was way louder and distracting in meetings - that can't be healthy for your joints. It feels like typing on a block of wood.

Re: MacBook Owners' Butterfly Keyboard Lawsuit Gets Class Action Certification

#24

Post by headmelted »

birdyrooster wrote: post #6
rbanffy wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually like the very tactile nature. I think it's a shame to have to return to the previous model, where key travel is longer, but the tactility is meh.

I agree, I don't like key travel. I guess I am in the minority of people, because my RSI symptoms are actually lessened by lowering my key travel and trigger force. How I differ though is that I really would prefer a more quiet key than the Butterfly style. It's hard to type quietly on the toilet or in a meeting.

Its so subjective isn’t it? I really like the larger surface area of the BF keys, but I also quite like the loud clacks of the keyboard.

I came from Cherry MX blues back in the day and for whatever reason came to find the obnoxious nature of the super-clacks (which the BF keys also deliver in spades) oddly satisfying.

Re: MacBook Owners' Butterfly Keyboard Lawsuit Gets Class Action Certification

#25

Post by Goosee »

SilverRed wrote: post #20
cletus wrote: post #18

I actually blame Johnny Ive for this clusterf*ck. Ive famously pursued a crusade for thinness. It's said that design is the art of compromise. Well, Ive took a no compromises approach to thinness and it showed. Look no further than the 12" Macbook. One port (also needed for power), lower power CPU and (I believe?) the start of the dreaded butterfly keyboard. IIRC the butterfly keyboard's raison d'etre was to shave ha…

I recently had the choice between a macbook pro and a dell xps. Saw the dell xps had HDMI, USB-C _and_ USB-A and was sold. Its nice to be able to bring my laptop in to a meeting room and just be able to plug in the hdmi cable without needing an adapter. Its also really nice to be able to use all my usb c accessories but without having to go usb C only. And its not noticeably thicker than the macbook either. I can und…

I use to have the same thought process as you: instantly sold on devices with native hdmi, usb a & usb c. By that metric xps beats macbook.

Recently I tried to convert to a windows laptop from my 16 inch mbp. Upon switching I was constantly annoyed by the fan noise & using my pinkie to press the 'control' key opposed to macbook thumb on 'command' key.

The point is, I realized native port selection was not a metric to consider when purchasing a laptop. I am fine bringing an adapter to the meeting room.

I guess it comes down to what you value. I am just trying to play 'devil's advocate' with my anecdotal experience compared to your experience.

Re: MacBook Owners' Butterfly Keyboard Lawsuit Gets Class Action Certification

#26

Post by SilverRed »

Goosee wrote: post #25
SilverRed wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently had the choice between a macbook pro and a dell xps. Saw the dell xps had HDMI, USB-C _and_ USB-A and was sold. Its nice to be able to bring my laptop in to a meeting room and just be able to plug in the hdmi cable without needing an adapter. Its also really nice to be able to use all my usb c accessories but without having to go usb C only. And its not noticeably thicker than the macbook either. I can und…

I use to have the same thought process as you: instantly sold on devices with native hdmi, usb a & usb c. By that metric xps beats macbook. Recently I tried to convert to a windows laptop from my 16 inch mbp. Upon switching I was constantly annoyed by the fan noise & using my pinkie to press the 'control' key opposed to macbook thumb on 'command' key. The point is, I realized native port selection was not a metric to…

I found the fan noise to be horrific on the 13in i5 macbook I was using. The thing was overheating constantly and since I use linux and windows at home, having the cmd key different only while working was a huge annoyance for me. On my dell xps 15 I almost never hear the fans at all and there is usually only a quick burst of fan noise when running a webpack compile or something compared to non stop 80% fans on the mbp.

There are far more things that made the dell xps a better choice and ports was just one of them but still a very important one. USB-C adapters are pretty cheap but USB-C hubs are $100+ and have been a constant source of frustration when they keep failing unless you buy the most expensive ones.

Re: MacBook Owners' Butterfly Keyboard Lawsuit Gets Class Action Certification

#27

Post by jghn »

cletus wrote: post #18

I actually blame Johnny Ive for this clusterf*ck. Ive famously pursued a crusade for thinness. It's said that design is the art of compromise. Well, Ive took a no compromises approach to thinness and it showed. Look no further than the 12" Macbook. One port (also needed for power), lower power CPU and (I believe?) the start of the dreaded butterfly keyboard. IIRC the butterfly keyboard's raison d'etre was to shave ha…

YMMV. My 12" retina MacBook was perhaps my favorite machine I've owned. I have a M1 Air now, I like it as well. There are some pros and cons to both. I do still miss the smaller form factor.

Re: MacBook Owners' Butterfly Keyboard Lawsuit Gets Class Action Certification

#28

Post by fiddlerwoaroof »

Goosee wrote: post #25
SilverRed wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently had the choice between a macbook pro and a dell xps. Saw the dell xps had HDMI, USB-C _and_ USB-A and was sold. Its nice to be able to bring my laptop in to a meeting room and just be able to plug in the hdmi cable without needing an adapter. Its also really nice to be able to use all my usb c accessories but without having to go usb C only. And its not noticeably thicker than the macbook either. I can und…

I use to have the same thought process as you: instantly sold on devices with native hdmi, usb a & usb c. By that metric xps beats macbook. Recently I tried to convert to a windows laptop from my 16 inch mbp. Upon switching I was constantly annoyed by the fan noise & using my pinkie to press the 'control' key opposed to macbook thumb on 'command' key. The point is, I realized native port selection was not a metric to…

Yeah, also USB-C is pretty obviously the future: having a single connector for all my external devices makes it hard to go back to packing multiple connectors. And, instead of dongle adapters, I just buy cables with the appropriate connector pair: e.g. HDMI/USB-C for my TV

Re: MacBook Owners' Butterfly Keyboard Lawsuit Gets Class Action Certification

#30

Post by ActorNightly »

Goosee wrote: post #25
SilverRed wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently had the choice between a macbook pro and a dell xps. Saw the dell xps had HDMI, USB-C _and_ USB-A and was sold. Its nice to be able to bring my laptop in to a meeting room and just be able to plug in the hdmi cable without needing an adapter. Its also really nice to be able to use all my usb c accessories but without having to go usb C only. And its not noticeably thicker than the macbook either. I can und…

I use to have the same thought process as you: instantly sold on devices with native hdmi, usb a & usb c. By that metric xps beats macbook. Recently I tried to convert to a windows laptop from my 16 inch mbp. Upon switching I was constantly annoyed by the fan noise & using my pinkie to press the 'control' key opposed to macbook thumb on 'command' key. The point is, I realized native port selection was not a metric to…

The thing with "windows" laptops is that you can install and run Linux seamlessly out of the box, even distros that Mimic the look of OSX, and remap the keys to your hearts content.
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