Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

eu.usatoday.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

571–580 of 1001 posts

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#571

Post by Aeolun »

strogonoff wrote: post #468
gregwebs wrote: post #397

This is a great article explaining why a lab leak should always be a suspect. The alternative theory is that a virus traveled on its own (via bats or other animals) from bat caves 900km away to Wuhan where there are 2 labs researching bats. One of the labs is lesser known but is right next to the seafood market and the hospital where the outbreak was first known. [1] This article points out that a lab outbreak could…

An eerily prescient quote from a paper[0] published in 2015, two of the authors of which are with Wuhan Institute of Virology: > Understanding the bat origin of human coronaviruses is helpful for the prediction and prevention of another pandemic emergence in the future. China has clearly contributed valuable research into bat coronaviruses. They had all the motivation to look into these after the first deadly SARS. I…

> However, CCP’s resistance to a proper thorough study of the origins of COVID is IMO not exactly appropriate.

It is, in fact, highly suspect. I’m not at all positive that it indeed leaked from a lab in Wuhan, but the fact they won’t let an independent investigation anywhere near it makes me lean more strongly towards that as a possibility.

The description of the last investigation into the origins of the virus felt more like a ‘guided tour’.

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#572

Post by gscott »

nradov wrote: post #562
gregwebs wrote: post #397

This is a great article explaining why a lab leak should always be a suspect. The alternative theory is that a virus traveled on its own (via bats or other animals) from bat caves 900km away to Wuhan where there are 2 labs researching bats. One of the labs is lesser known but is right next to the seafood market and the hospital where the outbreak was first known. [1] This article points out that a lab outbreak could…

An alternative hypothesis is that a human was infected near the bat caves, then traveled to Wuhan and spread it to other humans and animals at the seafood market. There's no specific evidence for that, but we can't rule it out either.

The seafood markets sell bats and other wild animals as well. When they butcher the bats, dogs eat the leftovers then someone else eats the dog. Plenty of ways for the virus to mutate.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8163761/Chinese-mar...

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#573

Post by kennywinker »

BeyondLimits99 wrote: post #505
xienze wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’ve always believed this was an lab accident by a technician that needed their job so they covered it up until they and too many family members got sick and it was obvious something was wrong. Really drove me nuts how early on everyone, everyone was working overtime to try and dismiss the possibility that this was some sort of lab leak. I’m sorry but the way China went absolutely DEFCON 1 (welding people into thei…

Absolutely. You don't just lock up a city full of 11 million people because they have the sniffles. The western world really dropped the ball with this one.

You don't go defcon 1 over the sniffles but you do go defcon 1 over an unknown virus that closely matches a highly lethal virus we encountered about ten years earlier (SARS classic).

There is nothing in china's outbreak response that suggests guilt.

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#574

Post by IgorPartola »

alfor wrote: post #534
IgorPartola wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My naive reasoning on why China didn’t create COVID-19 with the intention of using it is that I suspect (unburdened by education or the thought process) that engineering a virus is as difficult as coming up with a vaccine or treatment. If you are developing some kind of super virus to shut down the world economy and then immunize your own people to take advantage of the situation, wouldn’t you have the cure ready to…

From what I read, it’s only about researchers looking to publish something interesting rather than some complicated planned CCP plans. It’s rather simple to do the so called ’gain of function’, you let the virus have it’s run with bat cells and add lots of human cells in petri with them. Because there is no immune system, the virus have not much to stop it. Slowly it adapt to human cells, you can change the type of c…

Thanks, that makes a lot of sense.

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#575

Post by mensetmanusman »

nradov wrote: post #562
gregwebs wrote: post #397

This is a great article explaining why a lab leak should always be a suspect. The alternative theory is that a virus traveled on its own (via bats or other animals) from bat caves 900km away to Wuhan where there are 2 labs researching bats. One of the labs is lesser known but is right next to the seafood market and the hospital where the outbreak was first known. [1] This article points out that a lab outbreak could…

An alternative hypothesis is that a human was infected near the bat caves, then traveled to Wuhan and spread it to other humans and animals at the seafood market. There's no specific evidence for that, but we can't rule it out either.

Roll a dice representing all the locations of possible human bat interactions. How many of those land next to research labs that study this.

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#576

Post by neolog »

strogonoff wrote: post #468
gregwebs wrote: post #397

This is a great article explaining why a lab leak should always be a suspect. The alternative theory is that a virus traveled on its own (via bats or other animals) from bat caves 900km away to Wuhan where there are 2 labs researching bats. One of the labs is lesser known but is right next to the seafood market and the hospital where the outbreak was first known. [1] This article points out that a lab outbreak could…

An eerily prescient quote from a paper[0] published in 2015, two of the authors of which are with Wuhan Institute of Virology: > Understanding the bat origin of human coronaviruses is helpful for the prediction and prevention of another pandemic emergence in the future. China has clearly contributed valuable research into bat coronaviruses. They had all the motivation to look into these after the first deadly SARS. I…

Don't sanction for the mistake, sanction for the nontransparency.

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#577

Post by Aeolun »

DrJaws wrote: post #531
IgorPartola wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My naive reasoning on why China didn’t create COVID-19 with the intention of using it is that I suspect (unburdened by education or the thought process) that engineering a virus is as difficult as coming up with a vaccine or treatment. If you are developing some kind of super virus to shut down the world economy and then immunize your own people to take advantage of the situation, wouldn’t you have the cure ready to…

an immediate immunization of your population would drive to a raise of suspicion and if someone found china guilty of that, would mean a world war against them.

Given how many people died of the virus VS how many would die in a world war that seems like a highly illogical course of action.

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#578

Post by shard972 »

albatruss wrote: post #493
Graffur wrote: post #461

Science, like journalism, is supposed to be about facts and about getting to the truth. No source of covid-19 has been found. Similar lab leaks happen frequently. BUT.. you're not allowed to discuss it with the undertones that you're a bad person. If you say china virus you could be accused of being a racist. But if you say South African or British variant it's okay. The mental acrobats are insane. If you suggest peo…

There is no blame or antagonism towards British or South Africans implied by the use of those terms. No British or South African communities have seen a rise in violence against them in the last year. It's not mental acrobatics. It's pragmatism and empathy.

https://www.timeslive.co.za/news/south-africa/2021-01-19-don...

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#579

Post by darkerside »

docmars wrote: post #542
ckardat123 wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would think that the reason that people calling COVID the "China virus" are accused of racism is that there is really no reason to use that term for the virus outside of trying to offend others.

I think that's a pretty loose assumption that _all people_ are using it with ill intent. Anything can be said or used with ill intent, because intent matters and is separate from actual language. That's why we have tone in speaking and writing to help distinguish this. Our nonverbal cues say a lot more than the words themselves. A rise in violence against Spaniards cannot sloppily be attributed to the use of "Spanish…

> I think that's a pretty loose assumption that _all people_ are using it with ill intent.

Some people drop the N-bomb without ill intent either. There's plenty of precedent for agreeing that certain words and phrases just can't be used anymore in good faith.

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#580

Post by tkinom »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #570
gregwebs wrote: post #397

This is a great article explaining why a lab leak should always be a suspect. The alternative theory is that a virus traveled on its own (via bats or other animals) from bat caves 900km away to Wuhan where there are 2 labs researching bats. One of the labs is lesser known but is right next to the seafood market and the hospital where the outbreak was first known. [1] This article points out that a lab outbreak could…

We will never know the truth to the extent that China would admit this. It’s obvious in hindsight that what you say is likely true, but there is no feasible political route for the CCP to take blame, as their lives would be at stake due to unrest.

WHO should sequence all the Virus DNAs from that lab in 2015-2019 compare that with all the Covid sequences.
Post reply on HN