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Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

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Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#411

Post by TurkishPoptart »

tbenst wrote: post #155
SpaceRaccoon wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are indeed misunderstanding the point. Smallpox is also naturally originating virus. That doesn't prohibit it from leaking from a lab.

The author is irresponsibility propagating a conspiracy theory and elevating its status in the public’s mind. I’m a bioscientist. It’s frustrating to respond with evidence and in good faith, and be downvoted by those who simply disagree. But sadly it appears that the loudest voice prevails over reason. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00599-7

Can you explain why you are calling a plausible theory a "conspiracy theory" when it is something that indeed has happened in world history more than once?

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#413

Post by stevenhuang »

8note wrote: post #346
the_jeremy wrote: post #287

As a layperson whose activism only amounts to charitable donations, yard signs, and voting, why should I care whether this virus was a lab escapee or naturally spread? This is an earnest question, not a blind "I don't care". I think this is interesting, and I can see some amount of merit in these claims, but at the end of the day it doesn't feel like it matters to me which one it was. It seems like the only change wo…

What does this actually change? If China did indeed release the virus, does that mean I should not take a vaccine? That I should stop wearing a mask? If China knows and is hiding it, I'm still not clear what that changes. They'll still know to improve their safety practices

It means culpability. A better understanding of the dangers of experimenting with deadly viruses.

All of this contributes to the history and scientific corpus of what not to do, and lessons to learn from in the future that we can point to as what can happen in lab leak scenarios.

It's hard to accept in good faith the proposition that not knowing the truth of what happened is preferable to knowing the truth.

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#414

Post by neartheplain »

Pyramus wrote: post #189
benlumen wrote: post #6

Related - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26389690 (In 2018, US Diplomats Warned of Risky Coronavirus Experiments in a Wuhan Lab - politico.com)

Please check the actual cables before jumping to conclusions https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26447042

“If you actually read the cables [...]”

Link?

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#415

Post by jhokanson »

brabel wrote: post #366
Nav_Panel wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing how much ridicule I took for seriously suggesting this theory last year. My friends twisted and exaggerated the extent of my claims (implying I thought it was an intentional action on China's part, or an engineered virus, and not a result of mundane research + accidental containment failure), and called me a crazy conspiracy theorist. I had been reading every journal article I could get my hands on about…

Just in case you didn't understand what the article was saying: "Labs in Wuhan might not have played any role in the origin of the pandemic. But a year later, no source has been found, and the world deserves a thorough, unbiased investigation of all plausible theories that is conducted without fear or favor." It did NOT say the virus was definitely released from a lab. It did NOT present any evidence it was. All the…

Interesting take. I did not interpret their statement as vindication of being correct but rather that this version of events is a possibility that can't currently be dismissed.

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#416

Post by hootbootscoot »

colllectorof wrote: post #195
crx07 wrote: post #21

This has honestly been my unbiased opinion since essentially day 1. I believe that the release was almost certainly a complete accident, but there's just no realistic chance a novel virus coincidentally originates in the same isolated place as a lab that specializes in that exact same type of virus. The denialists, including the WHO and CDC and everyone else, need to get real and own up to what happened and figure ou…

Look, dude, leading experts have looked at this claim and said there is nearly zero chance this has was a lab leak: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/04/23/8417296... I mean, yeah, five out of 6 cited experts have ties to EcoHealth Alliance, which in turn has funding ties to one of the two virology labs in Wuhan, but that's, like, just a coincidence. If it wasn't, I'm sure NPR would mention it. And then…

"Look, dude," RNA mutates due to many environmental factors. It's why living organisms typically now use DNA and only short-term usage of RNA for copying purposes, certainly not as the primary data store.

RNA mutations mimicking proteins are precisely how a non-living entity can, like a bike-thief trying combinations randomly, unlock the lipid or protein sheaths on animal cells and gain direct access to the inputs of a genetic reproduction machine inside the cell.

So, aside from the fact that these folks only have some circumstantial evidence and woo to suggest a lab hypothesis, (not EVEN a theory, not EVEN a hypothesis, nay, mere speculation with a vested political axe to grind, hello) and that fact that all factual evidence of how all previous cross-species virus hops occurred point to this being a relatively common occurence (1918 avian-porcine-human connection occurred in Kansas by the way, not "Spanish")

umm sure

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_hydrolysis

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#417

Post by robin21 »

midrus wrote: post #377

My conspiracy theory is that, if the virus intentionally or unintentionally escaped from that lab, and the CDC,CIA, whatever, etc already know this, probably everyone prefers to shut up and deny it, because otherwise it might lead to a war with china and it would be a lot worse for everyone.

The only war with China is a trade war and that is only fought by convincing the public to endure the pain. I think everyone would welcome the ability to cut China out of the global supply chain if they could, it’s just about getting the people to go along with it.

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#419

Post by airhead969 »

duxup wrote: post #135
airhead969 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter if they're pushing this far-fetched hypothesis as "fact" or not, they're pushing it by continuously regurgitating such speculative FUD without evidence.

Not everything reported has to be a proven fact. Theories, ideas, there's room for all sorts of things in life that aren't certain.

Conspiracy theories aren't helpful.

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#420

Post by trhway »

gregwebs wrote: post #397

This is a great article explaining why a lab leak should always be a suspect. The alternative theory is that a virus traveled on its own (via bats or other animals) from bat caves 900km away to Wuhan where there are 2 labs researching bats. One of the labs is lesser known but is right next to the seafood market and the hospital where the outbreak was first known. [1] This article points out that a lab outbreak could…

>a lab outbreak could have happened in the United States and many places in the world.

not that outbreak. US stopped doing that GoF research and funded it in those Wuhan labs instead - basically like any other outsourcing of environmentally dangerous manufacturing/etc. to China. My pet conspiracy theory is that as part of that GoF the virus was tested on humans there - say some prisoners happily volunteering for a couple weeks break from hard labor to spend it in a nice hospital with a "flu".

And if the virus had totally natural - accidental freak of Nature - origin, why would you give 4 year prison to a journalist who was covering the beginning of the pandemic in Wuhan?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/siladityaray/2021/12/28/china-h...

The suppression of any information is totally in-line with some deep f&ck-up and/or government potentially looking very bad if real picture sees the light of day. Even Chernobyl wasn't suppressed to that degree.

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