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The price students pay for a prized IIT seat

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Re: The price students pay for a prized IIT seat

#11

Post by paxys »

bluefirebrand wrote: post #4

There is an argument to be made that to be the best at something you have to commit like that. You could write a similar story about pro athletes probably, although team sports would include some level of socialization by default, not all sports are team sports. And I imagine a lot of other sacrifices (friendships outside the team or sport, hobbies, education) are made in pursuit of a pro athlete dream too. And of co…

The comparison to pro athletes is apt, although a key difference here is that it isn't taboo to tell an otherwise good amateur athlete that they probably won't make it to the big leagues. So you don't have millions of kids every year sacrificing their lives in pursuit of pro sports.

Try telling an Indian parent to drop their kid out of school in grade 9 to join a cricket camp full time. But doing it for IIT is totally acceptable.

Re: The price students pay for a prized IIT seat

#12

Post by bluefirebrand »

paxys wrote: post #11
bluefirebrand wrote: post #4

There is an argument to be made that to be the best at something you have to commit like that. You could write a similar story about pro athletes probably, although team sports would include some level of socialization by default, not all sports are team sports. And I imagine a lot of other sacrifices (friendships outside the team or sport, hobbies, education) are made in pursuit of a pro athlete dream too. And of co…

The comparison to pro athletes is apt, although a key difference here is that it isn't taboo to tell an otherwise good amateur athlete that they probably won't make it to the big leagues. So you don't have millions of kids every year sacrificing their lives in pursuit of pro sports. Try telling an Indian parent to drop their kid out of school in grade 9 to join a cricket camp full time. But doing it for IIT is totall…

A lot of amateur athletes wind up forced out due to injury or other things outside their control (parent divorces, stuff like that) too.

Re: The price students pay for a prized IIT seat

#14

Post by Lammy »

tenebrisalietum wrote: post #10
fireeyed wrote: post #7

This is what happens when supply side overwhelms demand side. I remember in my teens, a person who graduated highschool with a modicum of technical aptitude could get hired as an entry level engineer in electronics, manufacturing, automotive etc. No longer the case. They won't even hire you for dog catcher with that background.

Are we overpopulated?

No, but we did move all the entry-level work overseas as a response to the successes of the civil rights movement. See also: Detroit, Camden, Gary, etc.

Re: The price students pay for a prized IIT seat

#15

Post by shadowofneptune »

tenebrisalietum wrote: post #10
fireeyed wrote: post #7

This is what happens when supply side overwhelms demand side. I remember in my teens, a person who graduated highschool with a modicum of technical aptitude could get hired as an entry level engineer in electronics, manufacturing, automotive etc. No longer the case. They won't even hire you for dog catcher with that background.

Are we overpopulated?

Over-accreditation might be the issue instead.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credentialism_and_educational_...

Hard to tell how you would easily stop the trend of educational inflation though, degrees are an easy way to sort through applicants.

Re: The price students pay for a prized IIT seat

#16

Post by endisneigh »

ghgdynb1 wrote: post #2

I used to think that the “holistic” criteria elite US colleges use to select students was a failure of meritocracy. My view was that the non-objective metrics were excuses for colleges to let in students who wouldn’t grind but wanted prestige and had rich parents. But if you tie a person’s social status to performance on a single test, you suffocate all the useful things people could be doing if they didn’t have to s…

elite colleges basically have to have positive sentiment. a purely meritocratic admissions process wouldn't be conducive to this, because "rich" people generally do things that increase the sentiment of their schools, like become president or start famous companies.

This is why Stanford and Harvard are far more popular and recognizable compared to Caltech and MIT even though the quality of the students is virtually identical.

if you work in admissions as a place like Harvard or Stanford they will tell you point blank they make those kinds of "sentiment" considerations. I'm personally not a fan, but I get it.

Re: The price students pay for a prized IIT seat

#17

Post by bluefirebrand »

Daishiman wrote: post #8
bluefirebrand wrote: post #4

There is an argument to be made that to be the best at something you have to commit like that. You could write a similar story about pro athletes probably, although team sports would include some level of socialization by default, not all sports are team sports. And I imagine a lot of other sacrifices (friendships outside the team or sport, hobbies, education) are made in pursuit of a pro athlete dream too. And of co…

It's not even being "at the top". Ultimately the difference in education in high-quality institutions just isn't really that big. And while it's true that it is a useful signal that you're sufficiently dedicated to study something deeply for a few years, the correlation between actual success or utility outside of that just doesn't seem to make it worth much.

> It's not even being "at the top"

It seems to me that the kids pursuing it think it will take them to the top. I don't think anyone works that hard and sacrifices everything for a shot at being mediocre.

Re: The price students pay for a prized IIT seat

#18

Post by ArkanExplorer »

tenebrisalietum wrote: post #10
fireeyed wrote: post #7

This is what happens when supply side overwhelms demand side. I remember in my teens, a person who graduated highschool with a modicum of technical aptitude could get hired as an entry level engineer in electronics, manufacturing, automotive etc. No longer the case. They won't even hire you for dog catcher with that background.

Are we overpopulated?

The USA has sub-replacement fertility, as do almost all Western countries.

Population growth is entirely due to immigration.

We should open our borders to other very-high-HDI countries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Dev...

(With diversity and equality requirements, eg. max 10% from any one country, max 49% males from any one country)

And disallow immigration from all others.

Re: The price students pay for a prized IIT seat

#19

Post by wppick »

tenebrisalietum wrote: post #10
fireeyed wrote: post #7

This is what happens when supply side overwhelms demand side. I remember in my teens, a person who graduated highschool with a modicum of technical aptitude could get hired as an entry level engineer in electronics, manufacturing, automotive etc. No longer the case. They won't even hire you for dog catcher with that background.

Are we overpopulated?

The whole world could live in Texas. It's a failure of the people in leadership positions and who control the resources to create a game where everyone can find a fulfilling role to play. Instead its rent seeking and actively blocking the game from changing because that would risk their wealth.

Re: The price students pay for a prized IIT seat

#20

Post by sgt101 »

A colleague went to an IIT. I chatted with her about my daughters school and asked about her experience. She said that the pressure was intense in her late teens, but manageable "just three of the girls in my class killed themselves". She honestly didn't have a flicker on her face as she said it, it was haunting.
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