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Rents for the rich are going down, rents for the poor are going up. Why?

washingtonpost.com

31–40 of 257 posts

Re: Rents for the rich are going down, rents for the poor are going up. Why?

#31

Because by definition rich means “can buy house”, and poor means “no choice but to rent”. What sort of rich person rents a house, except whilst between selling old and new? It’s a strange question to ask .... who doesn’t see this as self evident?

That's a weird comment. Plenty of people are rich by your definition (could easily buy a house) but don't do it because it makes no sense financially. Most good investors are better off renting and getting higher returns in the stock market. Renting also allows you to move very quickly and you don't spend your time fixing things (i let my landlord handle it all)

Re: Rents for the rich are going down, rents for the poor are going up. Why?

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"What sort of rich person rents a house, except whilst between selling old and new?" There are quite a few techies who move to SF, work for the hot unicorn for 4 years, and live extremely cheaply. They don't buy housing because they don't intend to stay in SF (and besides, who wants to buy a house in SF?), but when they "retire" they've got a few million in stock options. They can buy a house, they just don't want to…

I don't really buy this. if you're going to be at a hot startup for 4 years and can easily afford a house the way the SF bay market has been for the past 2 decades is such that you would've made money in any 4 year period just buying and selling. covid might be the single exception. I think the issue is more that sf people are rich for the country but not rich for the bay area so they just rent.

Or as explained above it doesn't make sense to buy since it is cheaper to rent.

Re: Rents for the rich are going down, rents for the poor are going up. Why?

#33

Because by definition rich means “can buy house”, and poor means “no choice but to rent”. What sort of rich person rents a house, except whilst between selling old and new? It’s a strange question to ask .... who doesn’t see this as self evident?

I recently won the IPO lottery--went from nearly zero net wealth to a solid seven figure net wealth. I could buy a house in the bay area and give up > 50% of my cash for it, or I could give up 15-25% of my net wealth with a down payment on a a mortgage and pay (PITI) 110% or more of what I could pay in rent for a similar home.

Or I could continue renting and put that 15% - > 50% of my net worth in appreciating assets and income producing investments. Even better: I could move my family to a place where people aren't paying $2M for a home that's worth $250k.

The housing market here is suited best for people with absolutely no money sense at all, or those VHNWI and UHNWI who can buy into genuine investment grade real estate out here. It makes zero sense for the vast majority of people to buy here, especially people who more or less win a lottery with some options from a company that makes an exit. In almost every case their money would be put to better use renting here and investing elsewhere (assuming they're tied down here, e.g., due to work).

Re: Rents for the rich are going down, rents for the poor are going up. Why?

#34

Because by definition rich means “can buy house”, and poor means “no choice but to rent”. What sort of rich person rents a house, except whilst between selling old and new? It’s a strange question to ask .... who doesn’t see this as self evident?

Buying has costs too. Mortgages are an obvious example, but even if you could afford the house without debt the money could also have been invested in something that yields income like stocks or bonds. If the amount you'd receive in income from investing the house price can cover the rent of an equivalent house, it can make sense to rent as you come out ahead overall. It does not surprise me at all that rich people (who can take the time to shop around because they are not at risk of getting evicted) manage to get a better deal than someone who represents more credit risk for the landlord.

Of course pulling this type of thing off requires that you can find investments that will yield more than the rent price, which may not be easy to do in the long term as high yielding investments can often carry unforeseen risks. Also because a significant amount of people already know this, when renting is "cheap" enough compared to buying the demand for renting will increase and prices will rise. This means that the condition is unstable and will often disappear on its own.

Still, there are sometimes very valid monetary reasons to rent instead of buy. Then there are nonmonetary reasons to rent instead of buy that make sense even for quite rich people. If you're a NYC banker and you get seconded to London for 2 years to set up some new division, it is probably not worth the hassle to buy a house there.

Re: Rents for the rich are going down, rents for the poor are going up. Why?

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is pretty inevitable with our system of housing development. If you're a large property owner and you want to make more money, you have two options: A) Build more housing, to create more units you can rent out. B) Don't build more housing, and use the reduced supply to raise the rent on your existing properties. Since option B has a lower risk and a higher return on investment, is it really surprising that most…

Honest question: is choosing option B proven to lead to higher return on investment? Is there data showing it? Where I live periodically raising rent and evicting people to invite the higher-paying tenant has a limit that's reached pretty soon so maybe US dynamics escape me.

Maybe not, but pretty sure the wealth of an urban area is a superlinear function of density and size (super linear on both axes), so choices based on the marginal RoI to land barons will lead to suboptimal outcomes either way.

Re: Rents for the rich are going down, rents for the poor are going up. Why?

#36

Because by definition rich means “can buy house”, and poor means “no choice but to rent”. What sort of rich person rents a house, except whilst between selling old and new? It’s a strange question to ask .... who doesn’t see this as self evident?

That's a weird comment. Plenty of people are rich by your definition (could easily buy a house) but don't do it because it makes no sense financially. Most good investors are better off renting and getting higher returns in the stock market. Renting also allows you to move very quickly and you don't spend your time fixing things (i let my landlord handle it all)

You can't get the same leverage nearly as safely or as easily in the stock market, which is why so many people start to play landlord with second, third, etc, properties that they finance.

What changed in the last year is that people want a lot more space which is pulling them out of the "expensive apartment" market and into the "house" market, while also being less concerned about commute distance. So the expensive apartments fall in demand while the houses go through the roof, without effecting the lower end of the rental market at all.

Re: Rents for the rich are going down, rents for the poor are going up. Why?

#37

It's not "rents for the rich" it's "rents for higher priced apartments" and it's basic supply & demand. This headline stokes unnecessary class conflict. WaPo should be ashamed.

Those clicks won't click themselves!

Re: Rents for the rich are going down, rents for the poor are going up. Why?

#38

It is a huge risk right now to take on someone that is poor as a renter because of the moratorium. It is completely unsurprising to me that landlords have priced this risk factor in.

There was an article a saw a few weeks ago about some guys based out of Oakland (maybe someone else can find it) who has accumulated 5 figures worth of rental debt. It talks about how he had just moved into an expensive place at the beginning of the pandemic, got laid off, then couldn’t pay for the whole year. IIRC, he eventually moved, but still couldn’t pay rent and started accumulating even more rent debt there. I…

Five figures is $10,000. It only takes 2-3 months of rent to reach that in an expensive Oakland apartment.

Re: Rents for the rich are going down, rents for the poor are going up. Why?

#39

It's not "rents for the rich" it's "rents for higher priced apartments" and it's basic supply & demand. This headline stokes unnecessary class conflict. WaPo should be ashamed.

Who is renting higher priced apartments if not the rich?

[deleted]

Re: Rents for the rich are going down, rents for the poor are going up. Why?

#40

It's not "rents for the rich" it's "rents for higher priced apartments" and it's basic supply & demand. This headline stokes unnecessary class conflict. WaPo should be ashamed.

Who is renting higher priced apartments if not the rich?

Aren't most rich people living in their own houses? I'd imagine most higher priced apartment renters are middle class.
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