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What is consciousness? Some new perspectives from our physics project

writings.stephenwolfram.com

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Re: What is consciousness? Some new perspectives from our physics project

#31

Post by networkimprov »

neonological wrote: post #13

Careful. "Consciousness" may just be a language issue. It seems like a profound concept but it's really just a word with a very vague and complex definition. If someone tried to formalize "consciousness" it would be a technical book about 1000 pages long or something and all we're doing is debating about what goes in the book. It's very similar to the question what is "life?" I mean we understand that biology is just…

The essential feature is subjective experience of sensations, referred to as qualia. I've seen no debate about that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualia

Re: What is consciousness? Some new perspectives from our physics project

#32

Post by IncRnd »

tazjin wrote: post #23
fultonla wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, what would you say a "feeling" is, exactly?

It's just a type of sensation!

That is not correct. Not all words mean the same as each other. A sensation is an experience. A feeling is an emotional state. Sometimes, a feeling is idiomatically thought of as an unfounded belief, which can be traced back to a belief founded on an emotional state.

Re: What is consciousness? Some new perspectives from our physics project

#33

Post by nahuel0x »

barefeg wrote: post #27
nahuel0x wrote: post #26

I don't know if something of this is real, falsifiable, or how much of it is original work (and surely you need to peel off the Wolfram classic ego driven sentences) but I think I'm not the only one finding this project thought provoking and beautiful, at least in a poetic sense.

Borderline quack in my opinion

I'm not qualified to check if quantum mechanics and relativity are really derivable from his model, but if they are, seems like a big achievement at least as theoretical juggling (independently of the reality of the theory).

Re: What is consciousness? Some new perspectives from our physics project

#34

Post by AnimalMuppet »

networkimprov wrote: post #31
neonological wrote: post #13

Careful. "Consciousness" may just be a language issue. It seems like a profound concept but it's really just a word with a very vague and complex definition. If someone tried to formalize "consciousness" it would be a technical book about 1000 pages long or something and all we're doing is debating about what goes in the book. It's very similar to the question what is "life?" I mean we understand that biology is just…

The essential feature is subjective experience of sensations, referred to as qualia . I've seen no debate about that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualia

I'm not an expert, but I strongly suspect that you haven't looked for debate very hard. I strongly suspect that there is a fair amount of debate on that question. In fact, I'm pretty sure I've seen debate on that question, right here on HN.

Re: What is consciousness? Some new perspectives from our physics project

#35

Post by amanaplanacanal »

networkimprov wrote: post #31
neonological wrote: post #13

Careful. "Consciousness" may just be a language issue. It seems like a profound concept but it's really just a word with a very vague and complex definition. If someone tried to formalize "consciousness" it would be a technical book about 1000 pages long or something and all we're doing is debating about what goes in the book. It's very similar to the question what is "life?" I mean we understand that biology is just…

The essential feature is subjective experience of sensations, referred to as qualia . I've seen no debate about that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualia

The problem with that definition is that it’s subjective. You can only know for yourself, but not for anyone else. That makes it completely useless.

Re: What is consciousness? Some new perspectives from our physics project

#36

Post by simiones »

neonological wrote: post #13

Careful. "Consciousness" may just be a language issue. It seems like a profound concept but it's really just a word with a very vague and complex definition. If someone tried to formalize "consciousness" it would be a technical book about 1000 pages long or something and all we're doing is debating about what goes in the book. It's very similar to the question what is "life?" I mean we understand that biology is just…

That's precisely the problem - we can't yet formalize the concept we understand as "consciousness", and so any attempts to find a physical/mathematical definition are almost doomed to fail, as they can't really guarantee they are defining the actual concept we have in our minds when we say "consciousness".

Re: What is consciousness? Some new perspectives from our physics project

#37

Post by amanaplanacanal »

arnoooooo wrote: post #2

No explanation of consciousness cuts it if it does not address how first person perspective comes about. No computation results in first person perspective.

> No computation results in first person perspective.

But how would you know that?

Re: What is consciousness? Some new perspectives from our physics project

#38

Post by AnimalMuppet »

Wait, Wolfram has a physics project? Like, with a lab and everything?

Oh, no, not like with a lab. Like with "make some assumptions about what's going on that match Wolfram's pre-conceived ideas, then run some simulations and see if anything that looks somewhat like reality falls out". It's quite a stretch to call that a "physics project".

From that starting point, I'm skeptical that anything that falls out is going to shed light on actual real-world consciousness.

Re: What is consciousness? Some new perspectives from our physics project

#39

Post by root_axis »

I'm not a philosopher, but I don't understand why we need an explanation for subjective experience, how could we exist without it? If someone were to shove their hand into an open flame, but they also happened to lack the subjective experience of pain, it's conceivable they might not immediately recoil from the flame. This type of reaction doesn't seem compatible with our evolutionary history, the subjective experience of pain is unbearable because if it wasn't it wouldn't function as an efficient guide for avoiding damage to the body. All other subjective experiences seem to follow from the same logic.

Re: What is consciousness? Some new perspectives from our physics project

#40

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #35
networkimprov wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The essential feature is subjective experience of sensations, referred to as qualia . I've seen no debate about that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualia

The problem with that definition is that it’s subjective. You can only know for yourself, but not for anyone else. That makes it completely useless.

Of course it's subjective. That's the whole point.

And knowing for yourself still needs an explanation.

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