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Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

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Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#141

Post by synergy20 »

tbenst wrote: post #122

This article is written by a journalist who is clearly knowledgeable about safety practices and mistakes in US labs, but does not consider the extensive knowledge we have about the sequence of SARS-COV2. The preponderance of evidence supports a natural origin of the virus. This is no way exonerates the Wuhan government from possible culpability—indeed government officials did deliberately suppress information—but thi…

I recall China passed an urgent law at lightening speed to enforce safe practice in the bio-virus-labs across the nation a few weeks after the outbreak. It might tell you something.

Also it refused fiercely to let foreign experts in to investigate, which is also hard to explain other than something MUST be hidden at all costs.

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#142

Post by jMyles »

loveistheanswer wrote: post #105
0xcafecafe wrote: post #38

While the headline talks about covid, I found other bits of the article scary. For instance the supposed lax handling of pathogens like smallpox. While I would trust the worldwide scientific community for covid origin theories, I cannot look past the egregious safety violations reported in the article (if true).

>While I would trust the worldwide scientific community for covid origin theories Which scientific community are you referring to? There are countless scientists who have been arguing against the risks of gain of function research for many years. Why are pro-gain of function scientists deathly silent now about the supposed benefits of their research?

I had the same thought. Maybe it's just the crowd I run with, but criticism of gain-of-function research (certainly including informed speculation of a lab escape for this coronavirus) seem very mainstream to me.

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#143

Post by pnathan »

I have three perspectives here I want to share.

(1) Let's address the glass windows in our own house first and tighten the US policies and culture. Secrecy is not a good idea here. Without even reflecting on Covid, it is clear the author has been dealing with this a while, and the US needs to improve. I am reminded of discussions on the old '50s/'60s nuclear culture...

(2) A year later, it may not be possible for the most honest, the most painstaking, the most independent reconstruction of the Wuhan lab events to properly track what occurred. Nor would it be per se politically doable. It might, however, be feasible for the Chinese official position to commit to an enhanced tightening of policies and culture around lab handling of specimens, in light of current events and looking forward.

(3) To a first approximation (the same one where Pi = 3), I don't care if Covid comes from a lab, a bat, a pig, or a chicken. I care that there are dead people, and that there was massive dysfunction globally & in a multipartisan way in the response, leading to more dead and disabled people...

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#145

Post by ryanfreeborn »

airhead969 wrote: post #81
dang wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't take HN threads into nationalistic flamewar. I've spent a lot of time, energy, and words asking people not to do that in the opposite direction [1]. It applies just as much the other way around. Name-calling, flamebait, and nationalistic provocations take the internet straight to hell. We're trying to avoid that fate here, or at least stave it off [2] a little longer. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsgui…

I'm not. I'm in the US saying "stop attacking China without evidence." Edit: criticize justly and specifically, not nationalistically. Attacking any group using stretched/thin arguments makes the accusers look weak.

Perhaps other MSM publications. The specific article here talks about US accidents in high-standards labs, and posits that those same accidents can happen in other countries. It's not attacking China at all. What you're describing doesn't apply to the discussion in this article or this thread, just seems non-productive.

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#146

Post by garmaine »

Ancapistani wrote: post #24
crx07 wrote: post #21

This has honestly been my unbiased opinion since essentially day 1. I believe that the release was almost certainly a complete accident, but there's just no realistic chance a novel virus coincidentally originates in the same isolated place as a lab that specializes in that exact same type of virus. The denialists, including the WHO and CDC and everyone else, need to get real and own up to what happened and figure ou…

> there's just no realistic chance a novel virus coincidentally originates in the same isolated place as a lab that specializes in that exact same type of virus. I think that it is at least somewhat likely that it was the result of the lab's activities, but your assertion here has a huge dose of selection bias. If the virology labs studying coronaviruses were placed randomly around the world, you'd be correct - but t…

Wuhan is around thousand kilometers away from where this virus supposedly originated from.

But the Wuhan lab did receive samples in 2019 from miners who died in 2012 from an infection of a novel coronavirus that resulted in symptoms very similar to COVID-19.

https://nypost.com/2020/08/15/covid-19-first-appeared-in-chi...

That’s a complete coincidence though and you’re bigoted for thinking there could possibly be a connection! /s

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#147

Post by stonogo »

dang wrote: post #82
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not waynesonfire, but seriously, what is up with people making deliberately misleading claims (e.g. highlighting it is not found in influenza viruses, even though covid virus is not influenza), and then providing a link that specifically debunks the implication they are trying to make . It's like people just depend on nobody following the links they post.

" Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith. " https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Hi dang,

I am curious to know if this guideline applies only when responding to HN comments, or if it should be applied to source material in article links as well. I've noticed a lot more conspiracy-theorizing comments lately and it's hard to engage when the whole premise of a given comment is accusing someone else of misrepresenting facts.

Thanks for all your hard work, regardless!

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#148

Post by tbenst »

garmaine wrote: post #130
tbenst wrote: post #122

This article is written by a journalist who is clearly knowledgeable about safety practices and mistakes in US labs, but does not consider the extensive knowledge we have about the sequence of SARS-COV2. The preponderance of evidence supports a natural origin of the virus. This is no way exonerates the Wuhan government from possible culpability—indeed government officials did deliberately suppress information—but thi…

I think you are confusing “lab leak” with “lab manufactured.”

On the contrary. A leak implies that something was contained. Notwithstanding the complete lack of evidence for a leak—and one could waste a lifetime trying to disprove claims that have no evidence-if of natural origin, the virus was already infecting animals and/or people.

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#149

Post by stonogo »

bootlooped wrote: post #124
tantalor wrote: post #55

Easy answer: it's impossible to prove a negative. In this case, that the lab was not responsible.

How do we prove that accused people are not guilty of crimes then?

In the US courts system, we do not. People are presumed innocent, and the burden of proof is on the prosecution.

Re: Why the Wuhan lab leak theory shouldn't be dismissed

#150

Post by Gibbon1 »

x3n0ph3n3 wrote: post #92
Aunche wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there's just no realistic chance a novel virus coincidentally originates in the same isolated place as a lab that specializes in that exact same type of virus Why not? Wuhan is the 43rd largest city in the world. Meanwhile, the earliest cases of CoVid were all connected to the same wet market. Doesn't that have a higher probability being the origin?

Evidence points to it _not_ being from the wet markets in China: https://www.livescience.com/covid-19-did-not-start-at-wuhan-...

Perhaps it would have burned itself out if it hadn't spread to the market.
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