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What is consciousness? Some new perspectives from our physics project

writings.stephenwolfram.com

11–20 of 103 posts

Re: What is consciousness? Some new perspectives from our physics project

#11
Wolfram's idea about computational irreducibility is an interesting one. Going through it again reminds me a lot of how intriguingly difficult the Navier–Stokes existence and smoothness problem is.

But in this article Wolfram's view on consciousness occurs to be nothing more than a bunch of abstraction layers put together in a badly baked Lasagna.

For anyone who is computationally minded, I believe by just having a psychedlic experience one would gain mucher greater insight into the intricacies of consciousness than reading articles like this.

I highly doubt without constant experimentation with psychedlics one can come up with anything computationally insightful about consciousness, espeically theroies and mathematical models with practical applications in emerging fields such as BCI

e.g.

- models about how the brain's (sub)conscious attention mechanism works and how it plays a part in the (sub)conscious process of habit forming

- models about the conscious percpetion of time and how can one go about slowing it down or speeding it up and how will that play out in the (sub)conscious memory encoding and decoding processes

I believe the study of consciousness ultimiately resolves around the study of cybernetics in a none-ergodicity system within a certain set of constraint satisfactions. I think perhaps one can even apply frameworks such as homotopy type theory (HoTT) for a certain categorical formalization.

Re: What is consciousness? Some new perspectives from our physics project

#12

I think of consciousness as a feeling and nothing more. Similar to the feeling of free will, both are an "illusion" and we're not actually aware or free. The universe is made of instructions that everything follows and including us. We believing in awareness is just instructions for how we operate as subsystems of the Universe and like or unlike other subsystems of the universe. I find the idea simpler to grasp if yo…

Even if it was "just a feeling", who said a feeling is something simple? Feelings and qualia are just as mysteries as consciousness.

The rest is reductionist. "The universe is made of instructions that everything follows and including us" is so 19th century.

>We believing in awareness is just instructions for how we operate as subsystems of the Universe and like or unlike other subsystems of the universe.

"Subsystems of the universe" merely running as automated systems based on rules have resulted in the Kardashians fanbase, people debating NY vs Chicago pizza, and OnlyFans?

Re: What is consciousness? Some new perspectives from our physics project

#13
Careful. "Consciousness" may just be a language issue. It seems like a profound concept but it's really just a word with a very vague and complex definition.

If someone tried to formalize "consciousness" it would be a technical book about 1000 pages long or something and all we're doing is debating about what goes in the book.

It's very similar to the question what is "life?" I mean we understand that biology is just carbon based molecular machines, debating what "life" is as a general concept outside of biology is not a profound issue, it's just a language issue and you'd just be debating what the definition of a word "life" should encompass.

Re: What is consciousness? Some new perspectives from our physics project

#14

No explanation of consciousness cuts it if it does not address how first person perspective comes about. No computation results in first person perspective.

If you want an excuse for foreclosing on certain lines of inquiry, this is as good as any other.

Re: What is consciousness? Some new perspectives from our physics project

#15
post #6

I'd take more seriously Mr. Wolfram's ideas if he pointed out research by others too, not just himself.

I understand, but please let's avoid going to the place that all Wolfram threads go. It's not that it's wrong, necessarily, but it's utterly predictable, and therefore uninteresting, and we're trying for something else here. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so... https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Wolfram articles a…

Hahaha, interesting. Ok, will avoid in new Wolfram threads

Re: What is consciousness? Some new perspectives from our physics project

#16

Careful. "Consciousness" may just be a language issue. It seems like a profound concept but it's really just a word with a very vague and complex definition. If someone tried to formalize "consciousness" it would be a technical book about 1000 pages long or something and all we're doing is debating about what goes in the book. It's very similar to the question what is "life?" I mean we understand that biology is just…

I agree.

The ultimate question of consciousness regards the phenomenological experience of being - what is it? Where does it come from? What does it mean about us? Who else shares it?

Any theory of consciousness that doesn’t address those questions may indeed be addressing some version of how we might define consciousness, but it’s redefining the mountain from the foothills - justify it all you like, but nobody’s giving you credit for the summit.

Re: What is consciousness? Some new perspectives from our physics project

#17

Careful. "Consciousness" may just be a language issue. It seems like a profound concept but it's really just a word with a very vague and complex definition. If someone tried to formalize "consciousness" it would be a technical book about 1000 pages long or something and all we're doing is debating about what goes in the book. It's very similar to the question what is "life?" I mean we understand that biology is just…

I agree with the language part you said. I find worrying that Wolfram is not talking enough about it.

Re: What is consciousness? Some new perspectives from our physics project

#18

I think of consciousness as a feeling and nothing more. Similar to the feeling of free will, both are an "illusion" and we're not actually aware or free. The universe is made of instructions that everything follows and including us. We believing in awareness is just instructions for how we operate as subsystems of the Universe and like or unlike other subsystems of the universe. I find the idea simpler to grasp if yo…

So, what would you say a "feeling" is, exactly?

Re: What is consciousness? Some new perspectives from our physics project

#19

To add one more critic: A couple minutes into the text, I still didnt read something of substance/consequence. Lots of hand waiving and describing the usual phenomena in other terms. I will follow this thread hoping someone points out that good stuff is coming later in the text, but I doubt it.

> Lots of hand waiving and describing the usual phenomena in other terms.

Pretty par for the course when it comes to Stephen Wolfram. I generally find it hard to take him seriously for that very reason.

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