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Gitlab 13.10 Released

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21–30 of 88 posts

Re: Gitlab 13.10 Released

#21
post #6
post #2

We try to make a little bit of progress on many features each month. So most of the time we won't have any giant new features, progress happens iteratively. You might also notice lots of deprecations as we get closer to 14.0 (immediately after 13.11) Happy to answer any questions.

Why isn't the what's new section in Gitlab updated for 13.10? It still says "13.9 (Your Version)". EDIT: That is, the one under the help tab in a Gitlab instance on the top right.

On https://gitlab.com/help I see 13.11.0-pre as the version.

Maybe you're working on a self-managed version that still needs to be updated?

Re: Gitlab 13.10 Released

#22
post #15

I am curious, at what point will the features stop? Do we keep adding features until Gitlab becomes impossibly complex to use or onboard anyone? Why isn't Gitlab built like a modular app - add what you want but core should be simple as possible and feature complete. I am afraid but this is how a lot of applications die. Gitlab is starting to get bulky and obese already.

Just take a look at the gitlab ci reference. It is huge. And there are competing features in there that are intended to "deprecate" the older feature but this doesn't happen. They are also constantly held back on providing backwards support. For instance, adding dpeendency-like flow as opposed to stage based flow has been added but it's not possible to model dependencies from same stage making the whole thing kind of…

Seems trivial to add a version field to the root object if they ever go down that route.

I haven't had any older yamls break and I wouldn't say the yaml schema is worse off because of backwards compatibility. Not sure a version would change much atm.

Re: Gitlab 13.10 Released

#23
post #13

I am curious, at what point will the features stop? Do we keep adding features until Gitlab becomes impossibly complex to use or onboard anyone? Why isn't Gitlab built like a modular app - add what you want but core should be simple as possible and feature complete. I am afraid but this is how a lot of applications die. Gitlab is starting to get bulky and obese already.

Yeah, I was an avid user of self hosted gitlab previously, but the pace of added bloat^Wfeatures was just too much and I ditched it for gitea about 1 year ago. I feel gitlab's is now mainly aiming at large enough companies which actually use all of these features.

Not sure why you feel that added features result in "bloat". We've been on Gitlab for 4 years now, and our core workflow not only hasn't changed, but also has not been impacted by any of the new features. On the other hand, we've expanded our usage beyond it, and it's always nice to need a feature and find out that it is right there under a menu and just needs some configuration to get it to work.

Re: Gitlab 13.10 Released

#24
post #16

If anyone from Gitlab happens to read this, how is ActionCable working out for you on gitlab.com? If you're not from Gitlab but use ActionCable at moderate scale feel free to share your story too! I casually read a few PRs and issues from a year ago where you discussed introducing ActionCable but it looks like a full blown report hasn't been written up on how it panned out, but I do see it being referenced in your HT…

Last thing I heard we're no longer worried about memory usage. We where thinking about using AnyCable to address memory concerns but that is off the table at the moment because it isn't an issue anymore.

Re: Gitlab 13.10 Released

#25
post #17

I am curious, at what point will the features stop? Do we keep adding features until Gitlab becomes impossibly complex to use or onboard anyone? Why isn't Gitlab built like a modular app - add what you want but core should be simple as possible and feature complete. I am afraid but this is how a lot of applications die. Gitlab is starting to get bulky and obese already.

The worst manifestation of these force fit features are the Kubernetes ones. That integration is wonky to say the least.

The idea behind it is sound. Its a massive timesaver to be able to live-review apps as part of merge-reviews.

Re: Gitlab 13.10 Released

#26

I am curious, at what point will the features stop? Do we keep adding features until Gitlab becomes impossibly complex to use or onboard anyone? Why isn't Gitlab built like a modular app - add what you want but core should be simple as possible and feature complete. I am afraid but this is how a lot of applications die. Gitlab is starting to get bulky and obese already.

I think this is a real strategic challenge for Gitlab; I think the answer is "the features never stop", and that is OK, as long as you understand their target customer/market.

I first started thinking hard about this when they recently cancelled their bronze tier subscription. Gitlab is clearly ducking out of a brawl with Github for the individual/consumer $5/month tier; that makes sense as there is no way Gitlab can win by taking on the incumbent on their own turf. Instead Gitlab seems to be shifting focus to targeting larger enterprise customers; those who are fine paying $20/mo or ideally $100/mo for a one-stop solution to the full SDLC. (The counterargument here would be that they _are_ still targeting the $5/mo customer, they are just trying to replace a $5/mo Github subscription plus a $10/mo CircleCI sub plus a $10/mo Jira sub etc. -- I'm not sure I see that end of the userbase being as amenable to bundling though).

The largest enterprise customers will keep asking for more boxes to be ticked, because it's usually easier to add features onto your existing solution than to stitch multiple solutions together, and because the more features/config options you have, the more complex configurations/requirements you can satisfy. However that means you get feature bloat, and pricing becomes more challenging; you need to charge more for "all the features" tier, but as you broaden the offering, fewer customers actually want to pay for everything. "What do we keep in the $100/mo tier?" is a challenging question to get right as the feature-set grows.

As you get into enterprise sales, you start to need more customization/unbundling. Before I moved back to Github I paid Gitlab $20/mo per engineer on my team and would never dream of jumping up to $100/mo, but would absolutely have paid more for a la carte access to certain features from the $100/mo ultimate tier. (For example I have no interest in their issue tracker, but I'd love to have been able to use their DevOps / Kubernetes tooling).

I believe this sort of a la carte pricing is less developer-friendly because you tend to need to talk to a sales person vs. just having the developer sign up, but then I don't believe that "developer first" is your sales strategy in enterprise; see Okta vs. Auth0 for a good example:

https://auth0.com/pricing/ https://www.okta.com/pricing/#customer-identity-products

Auth0 keeps it as simple as possible. Even within customer-identity (their competitor to Auth0) Okta has way more configuration for add-ons like MFA, SSO etc.

(I know @sytse / Gitlab folks post on here regularly so I'd love to hear their feedback on whether I'm completely off-base in how I'm thinking about this stuff!)

Re: Gitlab 13.10 Released

#27
post #21
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why isn't the what's new section in Gitlab updated for 13.10? It still says "13.9 (Your Version)". EDIT: That is, the one under the help tab in a Gitlab instance on the top right.

On https://gitlab.com/help I see 13.11.0-pre as the version. Maybe you're working on a self-managed version that still needs to be updated?

I'm talking about this: https://i.imgur.com/isbEqn6.png

My instance is definitely updated, I did it myself and verified the version number in the Admin section.

Re: Gitlab 13.10 Released

#28
Can we just get a decent unified Notification Center, please? Notifications in GitLab are painful, just copy how GitHub does it and stop trying to make it so complicated.

Re: Gitlab 13.10 Released

#29
The Gitlab licensing model was recently change and the lowest tier starter license was removed. Anyone knows which of these new features a customer receives that is still on "starter" (which can be kept for up to one year after the change to the license model)?

Re: Gitlab 13.10 Released

#30
post #24
post #16

If anyone from Gitlab happens to read this, how is ActionCable working out for you on gitlab.com? If you're not from Gitlab but use ActionCable at moderate scale feel free to share your story too! I casually read a few PRs and issues from a year ago where you discussed introducing ActionCable but it looks like a full blown report hasn't been written up on how it panned out, but I do see it being referenced in your HT…

Last thing I heard we're no longer worried about memory usage. We where thinking about using AnyCable to address memory concerns but that is off the table at the moment because it isn't an issue anymore.

Thanks.

Are you no longer concerned because memory usage dropped significantly?

How's the overall latency?

I remember seeing some benchmarks where ActionCable was using like 1-2gb of memory for around a thousand active connections with 95% percentile latency in the multi-second range to broadcast a message. I do see AnyCable makes huge improvements here and I love the idea of it but also not too sure how backwards compatible it is with Hotwire / Turbo Streams.

I've always thought Rails was good / fast enough but the ActionCable stuff worries me a little because a single low end VPS could happily handle a very solid amount of traffic (tens of thousands of daily page views, etc.) but once you start factoring in websocket connections that changes everything. Suddenly pages that have completed the request / response cycle are still on the hook to keep a ws connection open even if they're not doing anything that causes a state change.

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