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Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

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Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#691

Post by foobarbaz33 »

temp8964 wrote: post #676
cmiles74 wrote: post #661

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it embarrassing that this is the top comment on this post. Not only is this comment mostly incoherent, it's pretty far from the facts at hand. These aren't hard to find, you can search Google or read the paragraph on Stallman's Wikipedia page.[0] Richard Stallman attempt to defend Marvin Minsky's involvement with Jeffrey Epstein was offensive. CNet[1] has a recap of the email thread (I believe Motherboard firs…

This is even worse. So this is not about he did something? Just he voiced his opinion on something?

Do you even mob justice bro?

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#692

Post by 8fGTBjZxBcHq »

ta8645 wrote: post #369
koonsolo wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the reason?

I believe it is natural human social behaviour that is simply emerging again after a long quiet period after the dissolution of organized religion. IMO, all the horrible mob mentality and violence that used to be blamed on religion, really didn't have much to do with religion or its associated belief system.. rather it's just ugly group and social dynamics that reemerge the moment people come back together under any…

Even non-religious people have been saying for _generations_ that mass turning away from religion without redirecting the genuine human needs it fulfills was going to be trouble.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#693

Post by KronisLV »

africanboy wrote: post #469
arp242 wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can have a conversation whether Stallman is the best person to be a leader, but let's keep false accusations and blatant misinterpretations of his words out of that please Well, yes, but everyone is talking about this, including your comment. Was Stallman treated unfairly? Sure. It is what it is; the world is an unfair place. I can't change that either. It's been a few years: let's move on and talk about effect…

> let's move on and talk about effective leadership for the movement instead. Let's move on and welcome Stallman back, because we need him more than those that slandered him. Let's also talk about what should change so it won't happen again, to anybody else. Not everyone is a gentle giant like Stallman is. Do you remember what happened to poor Aaron Swarz when he was falsely accused and prosecuted for things he hadn'…

This does seem like a slightly emotionally charged response, but overall i agree with you.

Stallman said things that would get most people "cancelled" nowadays, while his intent might have been to debate the language used, how it was dishonest and how jumping to conclusions might be a disingenuous way to go about things.

His words, from another post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26535974

  The announcement of the Friday event does an injustice to Marvin Minsky: “deceased AI ‘pioneer’ Marvin Minsky (who is accused of assaulting one of Epstein’s victims [2])” The injustice is in the word “assaulting”. The term “sexual assault” is so vague and slippery that it facilitates accusation inflation: taking claims that someone did X and leading people to think of it as Y, which is much worse than X... The word “assaulting” presumes that he applied force or violence, in some unspecified way, but the article itself says no such thing... We can imagine many scenarios, but the most plausible scenario is that she presented herself to him as entirely willing. Assuming she was being coerced by Epstein, he would have had every reason to tell her to conceal that from most of his associates…
It seems like an appalling situation, because one can understand why he came across in a way that would make people proceed to label him as someone who's advocating for what Minsky did, or claiming that it's okay. Whereas i get the feeling that RMS might not be entirely neurotypical, which the rest of the linked article seems to hint at - him picking arguments about the seemingly most mundane of things and not really having much of a "filter".

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#694

Post by angry_octet »

It is now clear that the FSF will never denounce the behavior of RMS, as they are his creature forever. As such, the organization is inherently toxic.

That many of you cannot recognize the problem of having RMS in a leadership position, or indeed see nothing wrong with his words or behavior, is itself a savage indictment on tech culture. Please wear FSF and Free Stallman badges prominently so I know to avoid you at conferences and warn others from using your software. You are pariahs.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#695

Post by junke »

hourislate wrote: post #59
Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #8

I think it is strange that, on the one hand, the tech world has been advocating for the rights of neurodivergent people – society should accept that people on the autism spectrum are different and that’s OK. But at the same time RMS has been attacked for some statements very probably stemming from his autism that, while they may seem a bit shocking and at odds with the mainstream, were not illegal or intentionally of…

It's sad that the media outlets and "Woke Twitter", etc, were misquoting him saying he was defending Jeffrey Epstein and doing everything they could to get him fired from the FSF, etc. What's even worse was none of these "WOKE" were even concerned with "the victims of sexual assault" or any other noble cause. This was organized for ideological reasons and their goal was and is to replace everyone in a relevant positi…

I say this in the most well-meaning way, you are brainwhashed.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#696

Post by hutzlibu »

Frost1x wrote: post #649
neycoda wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it bad for a man to hit on a woman?

In 2021, yes, it is, or at least that's the set of norms we've created. To be more precise, it's bad for anyone to hit on anyone else unless one omnisciently knows the other party is interested in you and wants to be hit on. As a result, the new forms of dating are that in order to move forward your risk for "making a move" (be it small or large) is not only rejection but also, apparently, potentially career ending f…

"but I think we've been moving that line too far for reasonably acceptable human behavior"

We maybe did. But we are also far from the dystopian scenario you described. I can tell you, in the real world dating still just works fine.

But yes, some behaviours like slapping on some ass, are more frowned upon and called out. Rightfully so.

The times where a woman had to marry her rapist, (this is actually from the bible) are gladly mostly over. But those times were the reason, now it got pushed back too much.

Because there is some unresolved anger left. And being aware of it - can help understand some rections better.

Like the original blog post that started all this. Which many here waved away as a sneaky smear campaign to create attention. Well no, it was a very emotional, honest expressed post. Maybe not really fair in all points, because - emotions. But authentic.

When you are a leader in an idealistic movement and you are incapable of sensing other peoples feelings - before you wave accusations of rape just away - then you are just wrong in that position.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#697

Post by temp8964 »

angry_octet wrote: post #694

It is now clear that the FSF will never denounce the behavior of RMS, as they are his creature forever. As such, the organization is inherently toxic. That many of you cannot recognize the problem of having RMS in a leadership position, or indeed see nothing wrong with his words or behavior, is itself a savage indictment on tech culture. Please wear FSF and Free Stallman badges prominently so I know to avoid you at c…

We should have moral giants lead every institution.

Saints! The Perfect Beings! Please come down Earth to save this planet!

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#698

Post by jedimastert »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #8

I think it is strange that, on the one hand, the tech world has been advocating for the rights of neurodivergent people – society should accept that people on the autism spectrum are different and that’s OK. But at the same time RMS has been attacked for some statements very probably stemming from his autism that, while they may seem a bit shocking and at odds with the mainstream, were not illegal or intentionally of…

I've always been against this scarlet letter mentality that seems pervasive.

I've also been vocally against RMS's particular brand of outreach as being incredibly alienating of the people whose opinions he actually needs to address. Admittedly, if he does have autism there's a ton of things that start to make sense, speaking from my own experiences with and around it, but I can't actually find a reference to any confirmed diagnosis from him. He's said he "suspects" as such, and I might as well, but it doesn't really help as neither of us are trained professionals. That being said, from my experience with autistic folks and what I know about him, it's not super surprising that he wouldn't get himself actually diagnosed or checked.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#699

Post by SamoyedFurFluff »

_ov7i wrote: post #684
SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would entirely agree but police also have a horrible track record when it comes to these things. The mob justice happens because the cops can’t be trusted to do justice, and haven’t been shown themselves worthy of that trust for generations when it comes to sexual assault. (Sometimes the cops themselves are the ones doing the assaulting!)

Does mob justice have a wonderful track record? Just because police and justice system are not perfect doesn't mean that the "alternative" is the one that should be considered right.

I think mob justice has a horrible track record! I think it happens because the public has lost all faith in police, which is equally horrible.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#700

Post by everdrive »

ethbr0 wrote: post #98
nostrademons wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ribbonfarm called this a couple years ago: https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2018/03/06/a-quick-battle-field-g... Specifically battlefront #8. He calls it consequential because the the neurodivergent/PC conflict highlights an inherent paradox in the PC worldview. Most applications of political correctness focus (at least on the surface) on defending a marginalized group against the verbal attacks of a privileged one. When a…

Honestly asking, what's the difference between someone being neurodivergent and just thoughtless / mean / an ass?

Without being too trite: intent.

Sometimes people think I'm being awkward or uncomfortable, but mostly I'm tripping over myself trying (and failing) to find the right things to say. People expect that you can read them, and read the situation in real time. I can't (although usually I can gather how it's all gone wrong once the moment has passed -- a double-edged sword.)

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