Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF • Hacker News Board

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#611

Post by fsflover » Mon, Mar 22, 2021, 1:35 PM UTC

CJefferson wrote: post #589

fsflover wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there anything different today concerning software that makes his old words obsolete? > before the web, the explosion in javascript https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/javascript-trap.html

The fact that "JavaScript won". You can't put that genie back in the bottle. The FSF could have been at the forefront, providing support and useful code under the GPL and LGPL. Instead very little web code is under their licences, because their leader won't interact with the modern web. I teach CS undergrads, and they in the main don't even know what RMS and the FSF are.

> providing support and useful code under the GPL and LGPL

FSF cannot write all code in the world, this is relatively small organization. They do provide a lot of support AFAIK and explain how to make your javascript free. AFAIK Discourd forums and Mastodon are examples of free-javascript websites.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#612

Post by literallycancer » Mon, Mar 22, 2021, 1:35 PM UTC

danparsonson wrote: post #587

K0balt wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what he said which some idiotic people have taken for some kind of endorsement of sexual assault: "The announcement of the Friday event does an injustice to Marvin Minsky: “deceased AI ‘pioneer’ Marvin Minsky (who is accused of assaulting one of Epstein’s victims [2])” The injustice is in the word “assaulting”. The term “sexual assault” is so vague and slippery that it facilitates accusation inflation: taking…

I think you and I must be reading that differently and I also think maybe you're forgetting the context of all this. The victims were as young as 11 years old and that was widely known (and surely obvious to the men involved); his comment therefore boils down to "is it REALLY statutory rape if she seems like she's OK with it?" and the answer is, of course, yes. Surely you can understand why people would see that as a…

First of all statutory rape is mostly a US phenomenon. In most other countries something either is a rape or isn't. Second, the term statutory rape is engineered to make people stop thinking and short circuit to "rape". Therefore it's toxic. There's nothing wrong with consensual sex between a 19 yo and a 17 yo. However, in the US they will be put on the rapist list and have their lifes ruined.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#613

Post by yread » Mon, Mar 22, 2021, 1:39 PM UTC

d0100 wrote: post #523

yread wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying that jerking off in front of people is OK or borderline? Stallman wasn't removed for "he once hit on me and I had to reject him". He wasn't criminalized at all, he resigned himself after saying stupid stuff.

> Are you saying that Does anything intellectually honest ever come after this start of phrase?

I don't understand what OP is saying here

> We went from "he grabbed me by the pussy" and "he jerked off in front of me" to .... "he once hit on me and I had to reject him".

we went from and to . Why even add the 2nd one? Only way it would make sense if it's a slippery slope: we went from and to

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#614

Post by hutzlibu » Mon, Mar 22, 2021, 1:42 PM UTC

flippinburgers wrote: post #607

hutzlibu wrote: post #568

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, but in combination with the sign on his office" Knight for Justice (and hot ladies)" and other remarks he did - you maybe see, why some people might get another idea? And why women feel uncomfortable around such a men? And why it therefore might be a bad idea to have such a person in a leadership position?

Which apparently was written by someone else who then snapped the photo.

You know that as a fact, or are you providing alternative facts based on what?

I have not seen the sign in person, but been told by people that it was indeed there.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#615

Post by scohesc » Mon, Mar 22, 2021, 1:42 PM UTC

bjourne wrote: post #590

K0balt wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what he said: "The announcement of the Friday event does an injustice to Marvin Minsky: “deceased AI ‘pioneer’ Marvin Minsky (who is accused of assaulting one of Epstein’s victims [2])” The injustice is in the word “assaulting”. The term “sexual assault” is so vague and slippery that it facilitates accusation inflation: taking claims that someone did X and leading people to think of it as Y, which is much wor…

Not an endorsement of sexual assault, but definitely an attempt to downplay the crime. According to https://www.theverge.com/2019/8/9/20798900/marvin-minsky-jef... , Minsky was 73-years-old at the time and the victim 17 and the assault occurred at Epstein's private island. Minsky must have known that, at the very least, she was pressured to have sex with him.

Stallman has autism. I don't think he really understands the intricacies of social boundaries, situations, and limits.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#616

Post by api » Mon, Mar 22, 2021, 1:43 PM UTC

joana035 wrote: post #516

cmeacham98 wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how this is relevant _at all_ to the linked article. You seem to be taking existing arguments that aren't even related to RMS's case and arguing against a strawman of an extreme version of them. No "mob justice" happened here. No women came forward and said RMS "hit on them" or whatever. RMS faced criticism for comments which justified rape and were close to victim blaming, and willingly resigned from his…

As a woman who, at my 16 was able to fool many men in selling me alcohol and nicotine, was able to interpret RMS arguments properly. It's a shame that his words are being twisted once again after everything he went through.

I can understand what Stallman meant, but I am not at all surprised at the reaction. This particular case has little to do with him hitting on women around him. This had been happening for decades and most people just rolled their eyes and made fun of him behind his back about it. This had everything to do with MIT's exposure to Epstein.

MIT gets outed as having numerous researchers who took money from and traveled with a convicted pedophile sex abuser, sex trafficker, and likely financial criminal, and Stallman writes an e-mail that sounds very much as if he's obliquely defending Epstein.

I imagine someone at MIT's communications office having a heart attack. "Oh fuck shut this idiot up NOW!" someone probably shouted.

This wasn't #metoo. This was Stallman embarrassing MIT and numerous powerful people.

I feel sort of sorry for Stallman because it's clear that he's "on the spectrum" or at least is the sort of person who thinks ultra-logically and doesn't understand the irrational power machinations of politics. He felt like he was writing something logical, and he was, but he stepped in a gigantic bear trap that would have been obvious to anyone with any social understanding.

Pro tip: if your institution is enmeshed in scandal, keep your mouth shut unless you are coordinating with your communications department or whomever is in charge of such things. If you do check, 99% of the time they will tell you to keep your mouth shut. If you do open your mouth, even with good intentions, polish up your CV first.

It amuses me that this entire 500+ post thread is about "cancel culture" when that's not what happened at all in this case.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#617

Post by h_anna_h » Mon, Mar 22, 2021, 1:43 PM UTC

dralley wrote: post #562

nyolfen wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

one of those criticisms as a i recall was 'he had a mattress in his office' as if this suggested something untoward rather than him sleeping in his office

No. If you go back and look at that accusation, it was that he was propositioning people for sex in the halls of MIT, AND he had a mattress in his office.

He used to live in his office.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#618

Post by literallycancer » Mon, Mar 22, 2021, 1:43 PM UTC

Siira wrote: post #509

cmeacham98 wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how this is relevant _at all_ to the linked article. You seem to be taking existing arguments that aren't even related to RMS's case and arguing against a strawman of an extreme version of them. No "mob justice" happened here. No women came forward and said RMS "hit on them" or whatever. RMS faced criticism for comments which justified rape and were close to victim blaming, and willingly resigned from his…

> willingly resigned Voluntary suicides are in your pipeline as well, no? Dictatorship sure doesn’t innovate.

Nah, it works better when you make it possible for the monsters and demons to discover the error of their ways and redeem themselves in a voluntary labor camp.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#619

Post by NateEag » Mon, Mar 22, 2021, 1:44 PM UTC

phkahler wrote: post #114

AzzieElbab wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never in my life seen so much hostility generated by good intentions as we are seeing now during this woke revolution. I repeat - never! And I lived through collapses of two failed states.

>> I have never in my life seen so much hostility generated by good intentions as we are seeing now during this woke revolution. The "woke" don't actually have good intentions. There are several motivations, but good intent just seems to be an excuse for the hostility you mention.

That's a strong statement about a whole lot of people.

Maybe you should limit that to "The 'woke' people I know."

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#620

Post by h_anna_h » Mon, Mar 22, 2021, 1:44 PM UTC

hutzlibu wrote: post #614

flippinburgers wrote: post #607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which apparently was written by someone else who then snapped the photo.

You know that as a fact, or are you providing alternative facts based on what? I have not seen the sign in person, but been told by people that it was indeed there.

The source is https://whoisylvia.medium.com/richard-stallman-has-been-vili...